r/OrthodoxChristianity Reddit 6 days ago

Friend Cut Off All Contact After Moving to a Monastery Community — Should I Reach Out?

The poster, a non-Orthodox Christian, describes how a close friend who was instrumental in bringing them to faith in Christ moved three years ago to live near Saint Anthony's Greek Orthodox Monastery in Arizona. At first she stayed in touch and invited visits, but then she stopped contacting family and friends entirely, with no explanation.

Her husband has likewise been estranged from his own family for years. The poster wonders whether a spiritual father or her husband encouraged the cutoff, and asks whether it would be inappropriate or disrespectful to send an email proposing modest letter correspondence, or whether continuing silence is the more loving choice. The discussion that followed focused less on theology and more on the specific community.

Commenters generally agreed that cutting off all contact is not a normal Orthodox practice: even monks on Mount Athos and novices at other American monasteries commonly keep letter correspondence with family, often with their abbot's blessing. Several respondents said that strict ascetic practices, such as cutting ties with the world, apply to monastics and are not expected of laypeople, and that a married woman living in a lay community should not be bound by them.

Multiple users reported hearing concerning things specifically about the community around Saint Anthony's, describing unusual rules such as overnight services, strict dress codes, and head coverings, and suggesting that extreme behaviors sometimes arise in lay communities that form around monasteries. Others shared personal experiences of families living there for decades, painting a mixed picture.

The practical consensus was that the poster should go ahead and reach out — ideally by letter or even an in-person visit — since a respectful attempt at contact is unlikely to harm the friend, while the lack of closure continues to weigh on those who love her.

Main points

The poster's friend moved to a lay community near Saint Anthony's Greek Orthodox Monastery and, without explanation, stopped contacting family and friends nearly three years ago.
The poster asks whether proposing letter correspondence would disrespect her friend's way of life, or whether continued silence is better.
Commenters agree total cutoff is not standard Orthodox practice; even monks and novices often keep letter contact with family, sometimes with their abbot's blessing.
Strict ascetic practices like cutting worldly ties apply to monastics, not married laypeople.
Several users reported odd or concerning accounts about the Saint Anthony's community specifically, and the practical advice was to send a letter or visit.

86 comments at the source Original on Reddit

Discussion · 51

Opinions are anonymous retellings of real comments from the original discussion. The same colour marks the same participant.

opinion#407 51 likes at the source
Every single thing I come across regarding that monastery just sounds stranger and stranger.
- opinion#414 18 likes at the source
  I've picked up on that too :(
  - opinion#419 12 likes at the source
    
    Based on what I've come across online, it really seems like a bizarre place. I found a discussion thread about it just by searching the monastery's name together with reddit — the specific forum it was posted on doesn't really matter.
    
    opinion#422 17 likes at the source
    
    Thanks for flagging that and posting it. I think my friend actually worked at the school referenced in that post. She told me a lot of troubling things — like needing the priest's blessing before any trip out of town, and that whatever he said about her marriage was binding between her and her husband. She also often talked about feeling under demonic attack. The 3am services and the extremely strict fasting are real too — she worried her husband wasn't getting enough protein. One thing that always struck me: she rarely spoke about Christ or Scripture itself; her focus seemed to be on the church fathers and their writings instead.
    
    opinion#426 18 likes at the source
    
    Agreed. None of that is normal and it really comes out of nowhere. I think it warrants closer attention from the bishops and hierarchy. Monasteries are a good thing, but no one is immune to corruption.
    
    opinion#427 11 likes at the source
    
    I visited St. Anthony's monastery some years back. When I told my spiritual father, a Greek Orthodox priest, he forbade me from going to confession there — he said they'd push me to, but I wasn't allowed. He almost never issues directives like that. And he grew up with his father taking him often to a monastery on Mt. Athos; those monks are like family to him, so he knows Orthodox monasticism deeply. When he warns me about a particular monastery, I listen. That said, St. Anthony's had some of the most gorgeous services I've ever experienced — the 3 a.m. one, all candlelight, was stunning. I stayed several days and I get the appeal of the place and the way of life. But I don't think it suits married people with kids — at least not most families. I'd suggest just sending your friend that email and trying to rebuild a casual connection. It costs you basically nothing at this point, right?
    
    opinion#432 8 likes at the source
    
    The Orthodox Church in no way encourages an ascetic, monastic lifestyle or a monastic-level pursuit of Theosis for regular believers — quite the opposite. Orthodoxy itself (not the behavior of certain individual priests or bishops) teaches that monastic asceticism isn't meant for married couples and families. Our priests, at least in my Antiochian parish and in the Greek church, don't live like monks. Women wouldn't want to marry them if that's how they intended to run their households.
    
    opinion#423 4 likes at the source
    
    It really isn't. People invent stories when their pride takes a hit. I never had any issues at the monasteries — I actually lived at one for years.
    
    opinion#428 7 likes at the source
    
    Then how do you account for the same complaints coming from regulars at this particular monastery? Sadly, not every monastery is consistent.
    
    opinion#433 9 likes at the source
    
    Because their pride gets wounded... People, especially in today's America, don't grasp monasticism and expect things to match some rosy Western fantasy they've invented. St. Anthony's is Athonite — it follows the ancient traditions of Mt. Athos, which means the monastery is run strictly. People don't get that the monks' first calling is their own way of life, and only then serving others — and they won't let visitors disrupt that. Modest dress is required, loud laughing or chatting isn't tolerated, reverence for the grounds is expected. People resent that. They assume monks should exist to fulfill their every request, but that's impossible — otherwise the monks couldn't live the life they came for. The Athonite houses in America are already very accommodating. Visit Greece and you'd be stunned. People gripe about penances, not realizing how watered down they've become — canons might call for six months without communion for a sin, and the monastics cut it to 40 days, and folks still take offense. That's what's behind these complaints. If someone can't handle the strict order, they should attend a parish instead. Then there are those who visit monasteries and somehow feel superior for following the stricter path, breeding pressure and judgment in the congregation. The monasteries are fully aware of this, but they can't keep hammering their people about it — that's not their…
    
    opinion#440 8 likes at the source
    
    Has it occurred to you that maybe these people aren't lying, that it's not merely "wounded pride," and that their experiences may simply have differed from yours?
    
    opinion#448 1 likes at the source
    
    Show me one case that doesn't fit what I described. I've seen dozens of these situations and people never tell the full story. Take the man who took his own life — he claimed they treated him terribly and that Elder Ephraim personally said horrific things to him, when in reality the elder never even spoke with him directly since they had no common language. So no, I don't buy that people had different experiences.
    
    opinion#451 4 likes at the source
    
    That may well be true for that individual and his dealings with the late Geronda, but I'd be cautious about sweeping claims; monastics are human and just as capable of sin as the rest of us. There are plenty of examples of harsh or misbehaving monks — you can easily find such stories online.
    
    opinion#441 7 likes at the source
    
    Thanks for sharing that perspective — really interesting, especially coming from someone with firsthand experience. May God bless your time at the monastery.
    
    opinion#442 6 likes at the source
    
    That's your experience, sure, but we've also seen outrageous penances lasting years, married families torn apart by counsel of celibacy, and not just once but repeatedly. Maybe things are healthier in the old world? I'm just offering a local view. Parish priests frequently advise against confessing at monasteries because they've had to clean up enormous messes afterward. The monasteries are also building a parallel structure outside bishops' authority — when people stop confessing to their parish priests, things grow messier and messier, and monks in their seclusion aren't the ones dealing with the broken relationships their counsel leaves behind.
    
    opinion#434 4 likes at the source
    
    Sadly, ego is a big problem in the United States, though this isn't unique to us. Before getting too worked up, remember that not everyone everywhere is at the same spiritual level as you. Sure, in Greece—especially on Athos—the penances are much stricter. But America is different. We're a worldly nation, and orthodoxy isn't something we can leap into like a tiger. With time and discernment we must approach the faith little by little; only then does faith become sustainable. I'm around a college campus, and yes, ego is an issue, but many people simply aren't ready for the full depth of faith. It's not just ego—it's exposure. Orthodoxy is a strong dose of spiritual medicine compared to daily lives with almost none. Strangely, this country desperately needs heavily watered-down penances, because we're spiritually weak, still building strength, new to the faith. Whatever small challenges to our ego we get are essential—tiny compared to Athos, but we're not a nation of athonites, we're a nation of the spiritually impoverished. In short, people get overzealous, then wake up realizing they're pathetic. Some handle it well, others don't, and don't expect the ratios to improve much.
    
    opinion#435 1 likes at the source
    
    That's not the norm at that monastery at all... but as with everything, 'the bad' depends on the perspective of whoever was there. One or two incidents may not have even been the monastery's fault, but since they happened on the grounds, they get advertised as such. The monastic complex gets hundreds of visitors every year—it's recognized as the largest Orthodox monastery in the Western Hemisphere and receives a steady stream of international pilgrims, tourists, and spiritual seekers. Put those few random claims in perspective.
    
    opinion#429 2 likes at the source
    
    There are several people in this thread who are still Orthodox. Compared to most things online, it doesn't seem particularly biased to me. But when something keeps happening at one specific place, you start to wonder.
    
    opinion#436 1 likes at the source
    
    You can be Orthodox and still hold wrong views. I've visited these places for years and never experienced a single thing people claim goes on there (other than what I mentioned myself).
    
    opinion#443 7 likes at the source
    
    Have you actually been to this particular one? Because if not, maybe this one specifically is the problem. Monasteries are wonderful, but all people are vulnerable to corruption.
    
    opinion#424 4 likes at the source
    
    None of this is particularly strange; it's just a reason not to use monastics as confessors unless you're prepared to live a very monastic life. American Orthodox people generally don't understand monastic life well. They picture it through the saints they've read about, not realizing those elders also had to be fairly 'bossy' to uphold the monastic mission. So if you go to them, expect a very strict confessor—and it's not like what they say is wrong. To illustrate, it's not a St. Anthony's thing: I've been to monasteries in Greece where the elder gives impromptu sermons on why women shouldn't wear makeup or why we shouldn't watch TV. As the other person hinted, if you have an ego you'll leave angry and feeling attacked, but if you're healthy, you take the criticism to heart while accepting that life in the world is different. What St. Anthony's does have that's a bit odd is the lay community around it, which can sometimes give off that LARPing-as-peasants vibe people mention. That's not something you see in the Orthodox world generally.
    
    opinion#430 1 likes at the source
    
    Yeah, I think that's the distinction—the lay community, and maybe it's partly on the monks for not shutting it down. Strictness isn't necessarily bad, especially for monks, but when laity start thinking it applies to them, we get problems.
    
    opinion#437 1 likes at the source
    
    Yes, the Church has enough monks—however, that monastic level of Theosis, the Athonite-style monastic trend, is the baggage today's mass of inquirers bring with them into the Church, because that's what the Orthobros preach online.
opinion#408 16 likes at the source
It's *somewhat* possible she took to heart something a monastic said about 'cutting ties with the outside world' that really only applies to monastics. That's not normal or recommended behavior for a lay person, and it's rather extreme in my humble opinion. But strange things do sometimes happen in communities that spring up around monasteries. I'd try sending her a letter. Better yet, I'd visit in person if I could. I'm sure you could tour the monastery on a regular day visit and stay in a hotel nearby if you're not Orthodox, timing it around a service she might attend.
- opinion#415 7 likes at the source
  
  Thanks a lot for the insight, that's helpful to hear. If I'm in Arizona, it may be worth a try. I know she'd be happy to see me, despite this unusual situation.
- opinion#416 9 likes at the source
  
  I believe they'll let almost anyone stay at the monastery for a few days, even if they aren't Orthodox. I've been there twice, and both times non-Orthodox people were staying in the dorms. They hold services daily—I believe Matins starts at 2:30 AM.
- opinion#417 1 likes at the source
  I've never heard a monastic tell a non-monastic to do that. Also, if she's avoiding this person, forcing contact wouldn't be appropriate.
  - opinion#420 5 likes at the source
    
    I don't want to be mean, but there are some. I know a popular spiritual father (he's been kind to me, and honestly he's the real deal, the kind of monastic you read about in books) who once told me to slowly cut contact with my family—not at St Anthony's or an Ephraimite monastery, I live abroad. I also took other things he said out of context and wayyy too literally, and I became really depressed and physically weak, quite erratic myself. Since I live alone and had basically no friends at the time (I was shutting almost everyone out), I burned out and didn't even want to do my prayer rule. I feel the OP's frustration. I've been slowly working through this with my old spiritual father and my cousin who's becoming a priest, and both have told me I need to be my own man and not be so nitpicky about the faith. Please pray I don't hold resentment toward the monastics I know and what they told me. They truly meant no harm (I hold the Platonic view that nobody knowingly does wrong—they judge even the bad, at that moment, to be the greater 'good').
    
    opinion#425 1 likes at the source
    
    Wow, I've never heard of an elder saying that to someone not already living in a monastery. I've mostly been talking about the Ephraimite monasteries, since those are the ones I know best. Did you ever ask him why cutting ties with family was necessary? I mean, I suppose if there's an abusive family member, a spiritual father might recommend keeping distance as a safety measure, but not the entire family...
    
    opinion#431 3 likes at the source
    
    Shortly after I became Orthodox, I went with a friend to St. Anthony's. On the whole it was a wonderful experience. But when I spoke with the elder there, it was very confusing for me as a recent convert. What he told me to do might be appropriate for a monastic, or even a layperson in an Orthodox country, but in my situation things could have gone badly if I'd applied his advice without first running it past my local priest when I got home. It wouldn't be a stretch to say it could ultimately have led to divorce rather than my wife eventually becoming Orthodox (which did happen after some time). Even in books like 'Wounded By Love,' St. Porphyrios describes how the penances he initially gave laypeople who came to him for confession ended up harming them, because they were monastic practices, not applied pastorally to a lay person's life. I mention this because it may not be spiritual abuse—it can just be bad advice. Some monks can place a burden on laypeople that's impossible to carry. That's why I now generally avoid asking monastics for advice, and if I do, I always take their words back to my own spiritual father, who knows me and hears my confession regularly.
    
    opinion#438 3 likes at the source
    
    A monk has withdrawn from the real world and hasn't gone through the psychological screening that American priests undergo, so much of their advice is useless for a layperson living a normal married family life. Some at St Anthony's and some followers of Elder Ephraim are realistic, but others are extreme and push asceticism, constant prayer and fasting—yeah, that works SO well with a family, right? NOT! My wife and I visited with Greek Orthodox friends of ours, and though men and women were in separate rooms, we all reached the same conclusion: some give realistic counsel and some just preach monastic tradition—filter it out!
    
    opinion#444 1 likes at the source
    
    Look, I'm not knocking monastics at all—I actually think America needs more monasteries and monastics. But discernment is needed in all things. And I'm not claiming I had better discernment than the monk who advised me; he was the one asking me questions and then giving advice, not the reverse. I have zero doubt he's far holier than I am. I'm just extremely glad I didn't go home and try to apply what he said on my own without first talking to my spiritual father.
    
    opinion#449 1 likes at the source
    
    Sorry, but the church does not need more monasteries—we simply disagree, and that's fine. In my view, what the church needs is pews full of non-extremists who can receive the various ministries parishes offer to the laity. Monasteries serve their own communities, and some even recruit the weak—that is NOT the role of a monastic.
    
    opinion#452 1 likes at the source
    
    Spectrums can exist within the church! One thing doesn't contradict the other. :)
    
    opinion#456 1 likes at the source
    
    The Church as a whole, maybe, but let's not suggest our congregations start living ascetic monastic ways—that's not what the church needs!
    
    opinion#439 2 likes at the source
    
    They wouldn't deliberately place an unbearable burden on someone. Sure, you're supposed to ask everything of your spiritual father, but if you seek guidance from a monastic elder, he's going to give serious advice. Even after saying that, St. Porphyrios still imposed strict penances. The strictest elder I know of is from St. Porphyrios' lineage. Some things simply aren't permitted. I don't know the details of what happened here. For instance, there are restrictions within marriage that must be observed, and it's a serious matter.
    
    opinion#445 1 likes at the source
    
    I agree. This Elder actually comes from St Porphyrios' lineage too, and I genuinely value his books and general counsel.
    
    opinion#446 1 likes at the source
    
    Oh no, no, no—it wasn't about sin. His advice to me about my struggles with various sins was actually good. But when he learned my wife wasn't yet Orthodox, he spent a long time really hammering on how I needed to go home and get her into the Orthodox Church ASAP. He was... very, *very* insistent about it. So much so that when I tried to explain our situation, he didn't seem interested in the details—I just "had" to go home and somehow make her Orthodox. It was honestly a bit unnerving how forcefully he pushed it.
    
    opinion#450 1 likes at the source
    
    Ah, okay, that makes sense. Were you married in the Church? Because there's a belief that the sacrament of marriage is only valid within the Orthodox Church (not saying a marriage outside the Church is worthless—intent matters), and some elders are extremely insistent that both spouses be Orthodox and married in the Church. Of course oikonomia applies in some situations, but I'm just saying that might explain why he said that.
    
    opinion#453 1 likes at the source
    
    No, I'd been married for years before I discovered Orthodoxy and converted, and I tried not to convert without my wife. I only started attending an Orthodox parish because the pastor of the non-Orthodox church we attended had been meeting with me about my interest in Orthodoxy, and at our last meeting things got tense—he started shouting when I said I couldn't answer some of his questions. I really couldn't at the time, but he apparently thought I was being evasive. Anyway, I couldn't stay there and my wife wouldn't leave, so I began attending a local Orthodox parish. My priest actually delayed my chrismation for a long while, hoping my wife might be reconciled to Orthodoxy or I to my old parish—he didn't want to bring me in without her. It was long and painful. Only after meeting her pastor did he conclude I clearly couldn't go back, and that as long as my wife consented, he'd allow it. Despite her pastor and family urging her to refuse, she gave consent. Years later she and my children also became Orthodox—glory to God! Anyway, I don't want to overstate my St. Anthony's experience; overall it was wonderful. I hadn't come to discuss all that, but the elder asked if I was married, then if my wife was Orthodox, then grilled me hard about converting her without caring about details—as if I had any power over that. He didn't know my wife. 😆 There was also one instruction about…
    
    opinion#454 1 likes at the source
    
    If a non-Orthodox person marries an Orthodox one in the Church, that isn't oikonomia at all. Maybe your parish is Russian or Slavic and has invented rules the Orthodox Church doesn't require. In Eastern Orthodoxy as a whole, what's required of a non-Orthodox spouse is that they be Christian and baptized with water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's the canon—a trinitarian baptism by water.
    
    opinion#457 1 likes at the source
    
    Oikonomia would be when an Orthodox person wants to marry, say, a Catholic, and the Church sometimes permits it. I've seen that happen in the Greek, ROCOR, Antiochian, and Serbian jurisdictions.
    
    opinion#455 1 likes at the source
    
    If a non-Orthodox person marries an Orthodox one in the Church, that isn't oikonomia at all. Maybe your parish is Russian or Slavic and has invented rules the Orthodox Church doesn't require. In Eastern Orthodoxy as a whole, what's required of a non-Orthodox spouse is that they be Christian and baptized with water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's the canon—a trinitarian baptism by water.
    
    opinion#447 1 likes at the source
    
    Wait!!! I'm a cradle Orthodox who immigrated from Lebanon at age 12 in 2003 and has lived in Northern California since. I learned the faith from monks at school... when I married in the church, the six marriage prep sessions said nothing about restrictions on married couples—unless those restrictions are traditions dressed up as dogma or old wives' tales, and NOT the dogmatic and canonical teachings of the whole Eastern Orthodox Church. Can you actually share these restrictions instead of just alluding to them? Maybe I need to find out how my wife and I are supposedly violating a serious one.
  - opinion#421 1 likes at the source
    
    Most healthy monasteries don't do that. I have *heard* of such things coming out of Ephraimite monasteries—like telling married couples to sleep in separate beds to avoid "lustful temptations." And I'm not sure I agree that forcing contact wouldn't be appropriate if you're worried about someone's health and wellbeing. It would be the same as if my friend joined a different religion and was told to stop talking to anyone in the outside world.
opinion#409 7 likes at the source

My godson's parents and their whole family relocated there nearly two decades ago. Their services really are held in the middle of the night, which they actually prefer—they sleep after the Divine Liturgy or other services and then have the whole day free. Dress must be very modest with no skin showing, and women and girls, even children, have to keep their heads covered on the grounds; some do this daily even outside. For most Greek Orthodox, whether in the US or Greece, a covered head in church was extremely rare, largely because of Turkish oppression—Muslims imposed it on everyone, which is why you hardly see it anywhere but monasteries. I did meet this monastery's founder decades ago when he toured parishes across the US, and while many seemed captivated by him, I wasn't. He was fundraising for the construction, and it's now become a major tourist spot. You can arrange to visit and stay a few days. My godson's parents still keep contact, though the husband was extremely controlling toward his wife, even while pregnant, back when they lived here—that's a story for another day. There has been controversy around this monastery, particularly about young men taken in and made to cut off contact with everyone, parents included. If they truly push people to sever ties with non-Orthodox Christians, then a call or letter to your friend is entirely appropriate. We have monasteries…
opinion#410 6 likes at the source

I understand why this is so troubling. On one hand, monastic asceticism demands restraint and renewal of the soul away from the world; on the other, there's a real distinction between someone who is a monastic and someone who is married. As an Orthodox Christian living in Arizona, I find it odd that there's almost a colony of married families and individuals clustered near the monastery. I can fully respect individuals running small businesses like lodges or shops serving pilgrims, but it bothers me when families attempt a kind of "hypo-monastic" existence. Monastic life and family life are two entirely separate paths—similar in some ways, but completely different in approach. I worry that perhaps a monastic spiritual father imposed a penance on your friend, or that they heard monastic counsel and took it too literally, without weighing the harm to those who love and worry about them. It's unfortunate that the modern Orthodox understanding in North America has swung toward this hyper-zealous attitude about monasticism without truly grasping what it is. God willing, it will balance out over time. That said, I'm a fairly worldly person with my own flaws, and I've only visited the monastery a few times, so maybe I'm missing something. Still, I've heard peculiar stories—not only from laity but from my own clergy, who strongly cautioned me and others to be careful. It's worth…
opinion#411 4 likes at the source

Yes, this is an Athonite-style monastery, meaning very strict rules for the male monks. On Mount Athos there can be extremely strict and intense practices that ordinary Christians aren't called to. But when someone moves in and embeds themselves in such a community, that's irregular for this style of monastery—they won't adapt their ancient rule or way of life. I've often heard it said: "don't go confess to a monk unless you want a monk's penance and correction," and that applies to much more than confession. I hope your friend is okay, and I'd suggest reaching out to the monastery, as another person mentioned.
opinion#412 4 likes at the source
I have a friend who's a novice at a different Orthodox monastery in the US. From what he told me, the abbot gives all the novices, and possibly some monks, a blessing to correspond with their families by letter—apparently to avoid accusations of being a cult. Another friend of mine has family living near St. Anthony's who regularly attend services there (presumably including communion), yet they come visit my friend and his wife often, for their wedding and other events. I'd be surprised if what your friend is doing is something the monastery actively enforces. My guess, like others have said, is that some people get so inspired by St. Anthony's that they try to live like monks as laypeople, or misinterpret what the monks say. People here have mentioned they get superstitious about other things too—off the top of my head, someone said people often want communion only from Geronda Paisios (the abbot of St. Anthony's), even though multiple chalices are offered to the faithful. I'd talk with your pastor or priest to figure out what makes sense here. I also agree with those who said visiting might be a good idea.
- opinion#418 3 likes at the source
  
  your comment makes a lot of sense, thank you. Years ago my friend actually wanted to become a nun, but the monasteries told her she wasn't ready, and later she got married. So I know she's had a personal longing for that lifestyle. It's reassuring to hear it's probably not an official teaching of this monastery.
opinion#413 2 likes at the source

I'm so sorry, OP. I don't know whether this is personal or some odd monastic thing. I have a monk friend on Mount Athos and we stay in touch, so I can assure you this isn't an Orthodox thing. As others have said, strange things have been reported about that monastery, but even so, I'd find it very odd for a monk to tell a couple to do this, which makes me think it's personal. A sibling of mine, with their spouse, cut off our entire family and friends too, and it had nothing to do with religion. This no-contact trend does seem more common lately. You could always visit the monastery and try to find them if you know the address—just knock on the door. I did that with my sibling and they never opened the door, so be prepared for the possibility that you won't get the response you hope for. If someone goes no-contact, they're probably doing it deliberately. I don't understand it. I hope you find peace. Do whatever you believe God is calling you to do—whether writing a letter or visiting—so you can have the closure you need to move on. God bless!