Catechumen seeks guidance on atheist girlfriend and marriage

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• − opinion#2907 64 likes at the source

  I'm gonna say it, and you're not gonna listen, but here it goes: do not be unequally yoked. It's gonna be strife and pain and friction and frustration and eventually, to keep the peace, you're gonna get pulled off your path and away from Jesus. She's not interested in a Christ centered marriage. She's not even curious. Keep praying if you want, but I think you need to accept she might not be the woman God has for you.

  • − opinion#2925 28 likes at the source

    This guy is right. Pray, see if she brings it up on her own, and if not, run. Nothing is more miserable than having to explain to your kids why mom doesn't want to come to liturgy with you every week and so on.
  • − opinion#2926 12 likes at the source

    And see, I know that's true, but I desperately don't want to do what I know I have to, because she's the first girl who actually loves me for me and accepts all my weird quirks. I'm not the most sociable person on earth, so finding someone is really hard, and I really love this girl.

    • − opinion#2938 15 likes at the source

      This side of heaven, life is full of really hard choices. Does she respect any part of the faith?
    • − opinion#2939 1 likes at the source

      Relationships and love are gifts from God and none of us can know if we'll be blessed like that in the future. Before we're in faith they can serve many purposes. I relate to you a lot and hope you get where God is guiding you. I'd love to just say be patient and pray about it, but the reality is if you keep joining yourself to her outside of God's covenant, eventually God will probably depart from you. Women lead us into temptation many times in life..
    • − opinion#2940 1 likes at the source

      Man, if you have any chance of converting her, do it through your actions. People can't argue with holiness.
  • − opinion#2927

    What about his girlfriend? How would she feel that the guy she loves so much, who stayed beside her when he had nothing, is just going to dump her because she's not "Orthodox"? Be careful what you say or do to a woman, because you can say that word easily. But the memory of a man leaving her for not being "Orthodox" will scar her forever, and the wound will stay. Instead of leading her to God, this guy might actually ruin her chance of ever coming to the faith. Just life experience. You can think you're doing your best for someone and it's not. The best thing he can do is not break her heart and let her realize on her own that they won't be compatible in marriage, so she's the one who initiates the breakup and can move on in peace. Thank you.
• − opinion#2908 22 likes at the source

  You're not even a catechumen yet. Be patient with her but also with yourself. Just focus on being a good Christian and let your transformation speak for itself. We've all been misled at some point, so treat her with the same dignity and compassion you'd have wanted at an earlier phase of your journey. Asking someone to adopt a whole new worldview after a few conversations isn't fair, no matter how rooted in truth it is. Go slow. Maybe introduce her to some Orthodox friends or show her some music. Don't force anything. Trust God and His providence. Everything will fall into place in time.
• − opinion#2909 20 likes at the source

  What I'm about to say isn't actually helpful at all, so ignore it if you want. I just find it completely baffling that there are so many people who are, at the same time: >a very kind soul who cares a lot about the world and other people. While also believing: >science disproves religion and religion is oppressive, just a coping mechanism. Those two worldviews don't fit together at all. If religion is just a coping mechanism and science disproves it, then humans are just biological machines with no inherent value and there's no reason to care about human life at all. No reason to be kind or caring. No reason to be cruel or vicious either. Every reason to be cold, calculating, uncaring. If we're nothing but flesh machines, might as well act like machines. The biggest reason I reject atheism is precisely because it leads to a dark void of meaningless nihilism. Love is an illusion, life is irrelevant, that kind of stuff. I can't accept that, so I reject atheism. Then I keep running into cheerful, friendly atheists who completely ignore that the universe is (by their philosophy) a meaningless death trap of pain and despair, and I don't know what to make of it. It makes no sense. These people are often even romantic and fall in love, while believing "love" is just a chemical reaction in your brain designed to make you reproduce. How can you love while believing love is a…

  • − opinion#2928 14 likes at the source

    Very well articulated. Before becoming Orthodox I was an anti-natalist raised in an atheist household. An "efilist" actually. I believed it would be better if animal life never existed at all, because we live on a meaningless space rock full of pain. I believed all babies should be aborted, the more the better, so they wouldn't have to suffer a pointless existence as a drone going school -> college -> work -> consume product -> retirement -> death. I tried all the secular therapies and SSRIs. That mindset got me toward heroin and benzos, down a dark path close to homelessness, stealing from family and friends to fund drugs. Then I found Christ and realized life is more than a stretch of consciousness with zero meaning. I stopped caring about the "life milestones" the current world imposes and realized that not wanting casual hookups and dates didn't make me a "virgin loser" (coworkers called me that so many times I believed it). I started being kind to others because I realized they mattered. My relationships healed and I'm getting clean from heroin. So glad I don't live in that world anymore man.
  • − opinion#2929 8 likes at the source

    She's probably pro abortion too, but somehow still "a very kind soul who cares a lot about the world and other people".

    • − opinion#2941 2 likes at the source

      Very kind people can have very shocking blind spots, being cruel toward someone because they don't recognize their own stance as cruelty. That's why we can't just trust our instincts, feelings, or intuitions. Someone can genuinely *want* to be kind and loving, yet murder a baby.
  • − opinion#2930 6 likes at the source

    As a former absurdist, you're spot on. From an existential standpoint I was completely numb. About death, life, people. I picked stoicism as a practical philosophy, telling myself I create the meaning of my world, even though in my eyes there was no absolute meaning. Stoicism gave me an arbitrary set of rules I'd chosen for myself, as a way to feel good about myself and live my life. I resented people really, and thought anyone searching for the meaning of life was weak and cowardly. I still don't know how God pulled me out of that abyss, it's nothing short of a miracle. Unto Him be Glory, throughout all ages!
  • − opinion#2931 1 likes at the source

    The real answer is that she's ethnically Christian / she still has some of God's Grace, but when the moment comes that she questions why she holds her own values, she'll come running back to God. It's by God's Grace and love that He allows her to act as an atheist, or to "be an atheist". She's not an atheist lol.
  • − opinion#2932

    Well articulated. Worst of all though: she might actually be "a very kind soul who cares a lot about the world and other people"... but if she has no sense of the sacred or of absolutes in her life, what if she decides to change tomorrow? She (or the society around her) is basically her own god. The chances are very, very high she supports secular modern things like abortion, gender ideologies, etc. From other comments it seems OP is a pretty needy guy who probably knows all this but ignores it just so he doesn't lose her. Not judging, I was like that myself... Thank God He didn't put a woman in my life back then to make the path even harder.
  • − opinion#2933

    Atheist here, so let me try to explain. I don't care about people because of some objective worth. There's no objective meaning or value in anyone. That doesn't mean you turn into an asshole or something. Humans naturally have empathy and compassion. We can make our own meaning, since we're the only beings capable of creating meaning. If you need religion to justify being a good person, then you aren't one. So what if love is just chemicals and there's no God behind any of it? That doesn't make it less important to us, and that's what actually matters. We just play the hand we're dealt. None of it will matter in a billion years, but so what? I don't ignore that the universe is meaningless, I've just learned to live with it. Truth matters more to me than meaning.

    • − opinion#2942 5 likes at the source

      >If you need religion to justify being a good person than you aren't a good person. Says who? You? You didn't even define what "good" is, and that's the whole thing: you *don't* need religion to define "good" or justify being a "good person," because anyone can just arbitrarily define "good" and then shape themselves to fit it. You literally said yourself that humans "can make their own meaning." You also said "there is no objective meaning or value" in anyone. So how can you coherently talk about "truth" when you flat-out reject objective meaning and value?

      • − opinion#2947 1 likes at the source

        Yes, because that's my opinion. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily right. You're missing my point. My point was that if you need religion to keep yourself from doing "bad" things (what counts as bad obviously varies between cultures and beliefs, but let's just say it's whatever you consider "bad"), then you aren't a "good" person by your own standards. You're just behaving according to rules you prescribed to yourself. I'm not claiming anyone here would be a bad person without religion, that's not the point. The point is that believing in objective morality or meaning isn't necessary to be a "good" person. We all have to decide for ourselves what we think is moral and right. That doesn't mean it actually is. Truth can exist without objective value. Truth is an objective fact outside our opinions and beliefs. "Elephants have trunks" is a fact, that's truth as far as we know. Will we ever reach or fully understand truth? Maybe not, but that's not the point. The point is that truth isn't tethered to meaning.

        • − opinion#2952 2 likes at the source

          I won't pick apart everything you said (I recognize a lot of the thinking patterns I used to share myself, and I know nothing anyone said could have changed my mind back then). I'll just say this: the "rules" we try to follow are steps God laid out for our benefit. They're absolute, real and unchanging. We follow them out of deep love for Him. Not fear.

          • − opinion#2956 1 likes at the source

            That's true for most Christians. My point was just to show that IF you'd abandon everything you consider moral if religion didn't exist, then you aren't really a good person by your own standards. Not that Christians don't love God. Another way to put it: do you love God because of what he stands for, or do you love what he stands for because he's God? I'd suspect (and hope) that for most Christians, and religious people generally, it's the first one.
        • − opinion#2953 2 likes at the source

          >My point was that if you need religion to stop yourself from doing "bad" things than you aren't a "good" person. This argument only works if everyone assumes what "good" is and believes in an objective, transcendent understanding of "good" independent of any belief system. But that doesn't seem to be what you believe. If someone follows a religion, it's reasonable to assume they've adopted that religion's understanding of "good" and "bad" in the first place. Ideally, what they consider good and bad IS what the religion considers good and bad. In which case you can't talk about "needing religion to stop yourself from doing bad things," because without the religion their whole sense of good and bad would be different, and they couldn't be condemned the way you're condemning them. And if someone adheres to a religion, it's because they value it beyond just "needing it to not do bad things," since they've already accepted its definitions. Even if, somehow, someone only follows the religion's tenets out of need, that ethical system can easily be one where that's all it takes to count as "good." >I'm not claiming anyone here would be a bad person without religion. That's not my point either. My point is that your original argument presupposes an objective definition of "good" and "evil" that your stated worldview (and reality itself) rules out. Even Christianity doesn't spend that…

          • − opinion#2957 1 likes at the source

            No, it doesn't only work with an objective, transcendent belief system. It works with a general shared understanding of what's "good," which is also often backed by law. Example: "murder is immoral." Most people, religious or not, agree with that, and it's usually backed by law. Where you misunderstood me: when I said "if you need religion to be a good person than you aren't a good person," I wasn't talking about an objective "good." I was talking about my opinion of what's "good," which is generally shared by many people. "Good" and "bad" aren't necessarily objective, but that doesn't mean morality has no place. It just means it's subjective. Most people agree bread tastes good. That's not objective, but it doesn't invalidate the opinion, and being widely shared gives it weight for us. It may not matter to the universe, but it matters to us. What you said about God is internally consistent, but since I don't believe in God it doesn't apply to me. Not believing in objective morality makes things messy, but that doesn't make it invalid. What the other person originally said was that it's "baffling" that an atheist can be kind, care about the world and other people without religion. My point is you can recognize there's no objective morality and still act morally by your own standards. They also said atheism "leads to a dark void of meaningless nihilism," but it doesn't. You…
    • − opinion#2943 3 likes at the source

      >If you need religion to justify being a good person than you aren't a good person. What would a good person justify being good with, then? >I don't care about people because of some objective worth. There is no objective meaning or value in anyone. That doesn't mean you're going to become a asshole or something. Humans naturally have empathy and compassion. If someone's good behavior comes purely from the empathy and compassion they happen to have, couldn't we say they aren't really a good person either? They're only kind because it's easy. What if illness or trauma strips that empathy away? They'd risk becoming bitter and apathetic, because that would now be the natural, easy path. And if they believe caring about others has no inherent meaning or value, they have no reason to be kind once kindness becomes harder than selfishness. So can we really call them a good person? They're just acting like one for now, by pure happenstance. A religious person, meanwhile, is driven to treat others well regardless of their feelings, because they answer to a higher standard than their natural inclinations. >The truth is more important to me than meaning. Truth without meaning would be an oxymoron; the two depend on each other.

      • − opinion#2948 1 likes at the source

        But here's the thing: an atheist isn't necessarily going to do the selfish thing when it's easier. You're assuming that when it isn't necessarily true. I don't want to generalize, but an atheist doesn't need inherent meaning to care about someone. Not saying there aren't bitter, apathetic atheists, there are. But an atheist who is kind usually isn't doing it for practical gain. An atheist doesn't need an external push to behave morally. On the flip side, a religious person can absolutely become apathetic and bitter too. Agree to disagree on truth. I don't think truth and meaning depend on each other, but ultimately this disagreement comes down to subscribing to a religion or not, and you can believe whatever you want.

        • − opinion#2954 1 likes at the source

          This is true, to an extent. Because all of mankind was created in the Image of God, who is perfect morality, we don't *have* to believe in Him to understand that morality. We were designed to (borrowing your rather ironic phrasing) naturally know, somewhere deeper than our bones, that some things are right and some are wrong. Period. The presence of this objective morality that you yourself pointed to is one of the strongest intellectual defenses for God's existence. It is the slave to pride who is 'intellectually' resistant to the reality of God, because then they'd have to answer to Him instead of to themselves.
    • − opinion#2944 1 likes at the source

      Of course I'm not a good person! It's a foundational belief of Christianity that we're all sinners, therefore bad people. I don't get why atheists think "you're not a good person" is some gotcha. We already know we're not good people. But here's the thing... atheism ALSO implies we're not good people, because "good person" is a meaningless term you can define however you want. Christianity says objective good exists but we fall short of it, so I'm not a good person. Atheism says objective good doesn't exist, so "good person" is meaningless, so I'm STILL not a good person. Some religions might define us as good people, but I don't believe in them. Now, one more important point: >Humans naturally have empathy and compassion. ...for their friends and family. Not for random strangers, and definitely not for their enemies. If I weren't a Christian, I'd still love my family and friends just as much. Sure, of course. But even now, as a Christian, I struggle with strong feelings of hate toward people I consider my enemies. I try to suppress it, to not even indulge the thought of hating anyone, and I do a reasonably good job most of the time. If I weren't a Christian, I'd give up that internal struggle entirely. If there's no God, the philosophy of Genghis Khan is correct: love your friends, support your allies, kill your enemies without mercy.

      • − opinion#2949 1 likes at the source

        I'm not an atheist, Orthodoxy is fundamental to how I live and make sense of the world. I'm trying very very hard not to cut all my ties to Christianity, because when I was profoundly abused in my marriage I was told not to trust my own understanding or my husband's love, but to pray, stay faithful, and God would change his heart. I stayed, and the abuse wrecked my mental and physical health. Then my husband left me, I was homeless, I lost my kids, and every single Christian turned their back on me. I've been on multiple suicide holds this past year and have literally sobbed face-down in front of the iconostasis begging for guidance. A witch and an agnostic Jew are the only people who have sat with me in my pain in over a year. Orthodoxy teaches we're born whole and undefiled, but the moment you debate an atheist you start sounding like a Calvinist preaching total depravity. Some people are better than others, and most of the worst people I've known are Christians. Most of the atheist/agnostic people I know are deeply good and principled.
• − opinion#2910 8 likes at the source

  I'm going to say this as respectfully as I can, because I can tell you genuinely love your girlfriend and that your faith means a lot to you. But the harsh reality is that, even if your intentions come from love, you're trying to enforce your beliefs and expectations on someone who doesn't share them. And respectfully, I don't think that reflects the love, patience and respect Christ calls us to show. You can absolutely want a Christ-centred marriage, and you have every right to make marrying within the Orthodox Church non-negotiable for you. But she has the right to her own beliefs, just as you have yours. Respecting your faith doesn't mean she must adopt it, and loving her doesn't mean you have to convince her she's wrong until she agrees. I'd encourage you to reflect on what Christ actually teaches here. We're called to love others, respect their choices, and recognize that faith can't be forced. Jesus didn't compel anyone to follow Him. He invited, taught, and let them choose. Scripture even tells His followers to move on when their message isn't received. So if she has repeatedly said she doesn't believe, continuing to debate her or push her to see things your way may only push her further away. You can share your faith without making her feel she has to change to be worthy of your love. You said you're afraid of losing her and that the thought of her being spiritually…

  • − opinion#2934 1 likes at the source

    The Bible warns about non-believers for a reason. 1st, she can lead him away from the faith if he doesn't lead her to it, and 2nd, how can you marry someone and spend your whole life with them knowing you're most likely never going to meet afterwards? That she's probably going to hell. It's the same as marrying someone of a different faith.

    • − opinion#2945 3 likes at the source

      I understand both concerns, but a couple of things are worth considering. First, yes, a relationship with someone who doesn't share your faith has challenges, and beliefs can influence a partner. But that influence goes both ways. The possibility that she might lead him away from God doesn't mean she will, and it doesn't mean the relationship should be treated like she's a threat to his faith. If his faith is strong and matters to him, he can keep practising while respecting her beliefs. Ultimately he's responsible for his own choices and relationship with God, just as she is for hers. Second, I get that the idea of spending eternity apart from someone you love is genuinely frightening if you believe that's possible. I'm not dismissing that fear or saying he should ignore his beliefs about salvation. But none of us can know for certain anyone's eternal fate. He can hope and pray she comes to share his faith without assuming she's destined for hell just because she doesn't believe now. If sharing the Orthodox faith is essential to the marriage he wants, he has every right to acknowledge they may not be compatible. My point is simply that there's a difference between deciding a relationship doesn't align with your faith and pressuring someone you love to change their beliefs out of fear. He can take his faith, marriage and salvation seriously without treating her as someone he…

      • − opinion#2950

        That answer above is really good and well argued, and I want to add to it. The OP is technically not Orthodox yet, just a soon-to-be catechumen, still an inquirer. Many people come into the church full of zeal but never finish the catechism and so never become members. Some aren't ready to be received at the end. From what I've seen, converts who came on their own (not because they married a cradle Orthodox) usually leave within 2-5 years; after 10 there's rarely a trace of them. I've watched this pattern for almost 40 years now. OP, your demands and threats that she must convert are disrespectful to her. I assume you're a Christian. How would you feel if she insisted you give up your beliefs, or that you not convert? Do you want her converting in name only? Her refusing tells me she's no hypocrite. Part of what you should learn as a catechumen is that Orthodox people don't pressure others to convert, it just makes them dig in and close off. We say "come and see". What actually moves a spouse in a mixed marriage is seeing the genuine change in their partner, especially in how they treat people. Right now you could have a civil wedding. If you do convert and she has a change of heart later, the wedding can be blessed in church.
• − opinion#2911 8 likes at the source

  1st Corinthians 7:12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

  • − opinion#2935 5 likes at the source

    She isn't his wife, so that passage doesn't fit here. If it did, "unequally yoked" wouldn't even exist as a concept
• − opinion#2912 6 likes at the source

  The real issue is the kids. What faith would they grow up with? It's hard, but this could be Satan in disguise trying to pull your future family away from God. Pray about it.

  • − opinion#2936 3 likes at the source

    It's hard, but it can work...I'm married to an atheist myself. Our kids know some people believe in God and some don't. They actually ask to come to Church with me, and my husband doesn't mind me teaching them about faith.

    • − opinion#2946 3 likes at the source

      Glad your husband is at least that open! Plenty of atheists or unbelievers flat out think teaching dogma (Jesus is God, the Bible is the Word of God, etc.) is wrong and don't want their kids ~~brainwashed~~ (indoctrinated is the better word). That's why Paul warns against being unequally yoked, especially with children involved, it can create so much stress and strain for everyone, sometimes even pushing someone away from their faith. I'm a Christian who only became one almost three years ago, married 12 years to an unbeliever, and honestly I'm glad we don't have kids yet, because we've had more stressful talks and arguments about faith than I can count, and it sucks.

      • − opinion#2951 1 likes at the source

        Sorry things are that hard in your marriage. I know mine could have ended up just as bad, especially with kids involved. I thank God for my husband, that his heart was never that hardened (and I pray constantly that God softens it, the way He softened mine). Can I ask, you and your husband talk about faith? Has he shown interest, or is it more you wanting to explain it to him? I've avoided it very very much, even though it feels like living a double life (family life going on almost as normal, but my inner life, my whole worldview, everything is changed).

        • − opinion#2955 2 likes at the source

          Hi, thank you so much, and I'm truly glad you and your husband made it work despite the spiritual differences, for your sakes and your kids'. May it keep going that way! Yes, my husband and I talk about faith often, and for the last 8+ months mostly because of his own interest. Before, I'd bring it up and it would quickly become an argument. Over time I learned it's best not to push it on him, that tends to backfire. He, meanwhile, has been growing spiritually this past year: he believes in God, but in a more deistic way. He accepts Jesus was a historical man, agrees Jesus represents the bridge between humanity and God, and sees value in much of the gospels and other scripture. But for him, taking the Bible more seriously than that, like believing Jesus really rose or did miracles (he doesn't believe in the supernatural), or that the embellished-sounding OT stories happened, is going too far, missing the forest for the trees (he sees them as stories with lessons, not real accounts), and being delusional. He thinks the Bible is fallible and full of errors and contradictions, written by fallible humans who make mistakes. He also struggles enormously to reconcile God's goodness (God being love) with much of what God does in the OT, especially since it feels personal, his own father was physically abusive. So he rejects every OT passage portraying God as vindictive, jealous,…
• − opinion#2913 6 likes at the source

  Hear me out, brother. You say she's a kind soul, and maybe she is right now. But people never stay the same. They age like wine or like milk. Given time, that kind soul either works on its flaws and improves with age, or it rots until it's no longer kind, just a twisted parody of kindness. Without Christ she has no real beacon, no example to follow, only mortals deifying themselves who will likely lead her astray. The longer you're with her, the more likely you'll hear her suggest aborting a pregnancy because the timing is wrong, or that you stop "wasting time" at church, or take those "creepy-looking" icons off the walls, or introduce the kids to things like homosexuality or sexual identity, or at least forbid you from teaching them the faith of Christ. Sooner or later, unless she changes completely, you'll have irreconcilable differences. What you can do is pray to the Lord to open her eyes, but don't be pushy about it yourself. Keep it simple: insist that the God you believe in has only two rules, love that God with all your being and love others as yourself, and that every commandment follows logically from those two applied to human nature. Never teach her something is wrong or good just because God says so, use only secular arguments (the claim that science disproved God is easy to demolish with plain logic), and pray God puts faith in her heart. I used to believe…

  • − opinion#2937 2 likes at the source

    Listen to this man above. People absolutely change over a lifetime. Some for better, many for worse. Seek ye the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you. Aim to be with people you see as better than yourself. It's very easy to be led astray. I'm 60 and have spent my whole life chasing love, without success until recently. I should have spent that time seeking God instead, and who knows what blessings he would have given me.
• − opinion#2914 4 likes at the source

  You can't force faith on her, it doesn't work that way...You're just frustrating her and pushing her away...Though is she actually against being baptised? Edit: I'm married to an atheist. Yes, we have kids. We were both atheists when we married, but baptised Orthodox as infants.
• − opinion#2915 4 likes at the source

  You've gotten lots of good answers. Just quickly: science hasn't disproved religion and never will. The way I see it, god created the universe and the scientists are trying to figure out how the heck god did it. I actually think it's beautiful, they don't have to be against eachother
• − opinion#2916 4 likes at the source

  Keeping it real - no woman genuinely believes that hard that "science disproves religion". That's usually a combative atheist guy thing, so really what you're dealing with is the "oppressive" and "cope" angle. For men, we have to be completely humbled by our staggering ignorance and ego before we can accept Christ truly being the God-man. For women, it's usually social: you're asking her to basically swap her friend group and comfortable environment for a foreign group she has zero interest in. A guy can convert to ☦️ and drop his entire former life and church to attend a Russian-language liturgy weekly just because it's true. Women are 1000x more social than us, so that's the bigger stumbling block. **So the only real way to open her heart is:** #1 Obviously be a ***witness to the faith*** with your own life #2 Obviously pray for her ***heart to be softened*** #3 Invite her to church and ***let the women of the church talk*** her out of the "misogynistic religion" feelings #4 ***Stop debating and debunking*** immediately - that only works on guys because we're more hardheaded, women usually don't respond to it #5 Ask her to help you ***create a prayer corner*** - start with finding an icon of Theotokos #6 Only speak about the ***positive sides of people you both know*** - no gossip unless you're admiring a good quality, and ***assume the best*** "Maybe they're going through…
• − opinion#2917 3 likes at the source

  I'm an atheist and I've never even been on this subreddit, but don't force anything. You'll just wreck the relationship. Learn to respectfully cope or accept it won't work. She sounds like a good person, don't let people here change your mind about that. Religious takes on atheism are often very skewed (I was never Orthodox, but I was religious, and I've been on both sides of the fence so I can speak from experience). You can't force someone to change their religion.
• − opinion#2918 2 likes at the source

  You could suggest she read about the Orch OR theory of consciousness by Penrose and Hameroff, and Starostin's (et al) Tower of Babel project, but like the others said - I don't think you can really change someone's mind on faith and God. There are scientific theories that support God's existence to a degree, but they mostly strengthen the faith of people who already believe. God bless you
• − opinion#2919 1 likes at the source

  I feel for you, brother. I went through the same thing with my ex wife after 13 years of marriage. I tried it all: taking the family to church every week, setting up meetings with the pastor, even buying her an NLT Bible. All I got back were excuses for why she didn't believe, and she was so set in her decision that it turned into a battle of wills. We had different principles and values (she was unfaithful too), and eventually I gave up. What I learned is that you can't change people's beliefs, and I promised myself I'd only marry a Christian woman, which I did, and my life has completely turned around. Best marriage ever. I'd really encourage you to have her read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. God bless, I'll pray for you.
• − opinion#2920 1 likes at the source

  My wife is an atheist. She's actually far more orthodox than I am in every way that matters except belief. There are three kinds of atheist. The apathetic kind, who genuinely don't care about anything spiritual, it's beneath them. The skeptic, who is almost annoyingly hunting for truth and always debating. And the religious atheist, who actively practices atheistic beliefs and does atheist apologetics. If my wife were a religious atheist I don't think I could have married her, and that was before I was orthodox. I used to be a skeptic atheist myself. I never mocked religious people or their beliefs, some seemed ridiculous to me but nothing extreme. I'd just say: love her as she is and meet her where she is. Everyone gets exactly what they need to be saved. Do you fully trust Christ to change a person's heart? If so, be patient with her. If not, maybe you're not ready to be a church member. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have standards, goals and negotiations. If you want your kids baptized and she's actively against it, maybe you're not a good match, because having an opinion on the kids' spirituality makes her a religious atheist. I'm not married in the church. I can't be anyone's godparent, can't be clergy. I'm fine with that. I'd like to be, but I'd rather be there for my wife as she moves through her spiritual life.
• − opinion#2921 1 likes at the source

  Here's my take. 1. Talk to her sincerely. Have a discussion about religion and the existence of a transcendent God, using philosophy and Christian apologetics, it really helps. Be ready to answer questions like "Why does God allow suffering?" or "Why wouldn't He just show Himself to everyone so His existence is obvious?" and so on. Show her that her worldview should fit objective knowledge, not prejudice. Make clear to her that debates about God and religion run very deep, they've been alive from ancient times to now, they aren't some relic of the past. 2. If she still refuses to seek Christ, you'll have to accept your marriage won't be Christ-centered, promised before God in the Church. Still keep talking with her about morals, because Christian morals are truly the best and philosophy and psychology can prove it. Embrace each other in morality and love, love according to God's covenant. His law is written on every heart after all, even an atheist's. And don't forget the most important thing: praying. 2.1. It would be great if your wife, being an atheist, lets you raise the children in the Orthodox faith. If not, your children can still be raised in a special way. Lead them down the same path of finding faith that you once walked. Tell them about Christ's teaching, teach them philosophy and ethics, raise them in wisdom. Technically that's not "forced" conversion to…
• − opinion#2922 1 likes at the source

  When I was coming back to Christ, I was dating a man who was, and maybe still is, an atheist. I can't judge his current path because I don't know him anymore. My path began and my heart and desires started to change. For me that meant ending our intimate relationship, and he seemed okay with it and respectful at first. Eventually he decided my new path was a punishment he had to endure. He treated every change as a betrayal, and instead of supporting me he slowly started unwinding my new desires. So eventually I gave in. This went on until I felt Christ pulling me closer, and only by the grace and strength I received from Him did I finally end that relationship. I can't say I loved that man the way you love your girlfriend, but leaving the secular life I once lived was a huge heartbreak in itself, I felt I lost who I was and many other things with it. I can see the love you have for your girlfriend is sweet and genuine, and your fear of losing her is real. It's sweet that you pray for her faith to flourish. We can't know how Christ is working in her heart, but we can't work in the hearts of others the way Christ can. That's too much for us, which is why we give our hearts and trust to Him, because He can do anything. We can't force anyone to see what we see, and vice versa. So we let go of what isn't in our hands to cultivate. Pray for strength and discernment, and ask that…
• − opinion#2923 1 likes at the source

  You're not supposed to be dating her bro, I was in a relationship just like that. She's not for you, brother. I hope you're not sleeping with her either. Don't let anyone drag you into sin. I thought I loved my ex too, and God interfered in our relationship. We couldn't leave each other. I won't say how it happened, it's personal. Just know neither of us made the decision. Find someone who is already following Jesus like you are. Be yoked with your partner. If you marry her like this it'll ruin you.
• − opinion#2924 1 likes at the source

  Bro, read the scripture. "Do not be yoked with the disbelievers..." Also she doesn't mean everything to you bro. Only God is everything to you and every believer. Remember Solomon? Wisest man alive and he still fell because of his wives. I've been through something similar. My first girlfriend was a Hindu and she eventually pulled me far from Christ, and it broke me later, I was suicidal. I'm a Protestant, but I still think you either leave her or lead her to Christ. The second is hard but the result is bliss. God bless you, I'll pray for your situation.