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Priest's daughter questions Orthodox family ideal after traumatic upbringing

I'm drawn to many things in Orthodoxy and would like to keep it in my life and raise a family within it, though differently. I believe in God, but the traditions, the lifestyle, and some priests' views are sometimes hard for me to handle.

The problem is I carry a lot of trauma from my upbringing, and it's difficult to reconcile certain things. My father has been a priest for over thirty years, respected, serving in several churches and having built several. My mother is held up as an example for Orthodox women: nine children, never worked outside the home, devoted her life to them, helped extensively at church, now sings in the choir.

I grew up inside this family and know it from within. Converts who come as adults probably have a different experience because they lack this background. I'm not just from an Orthodox family; I'm from a family presented as a model of Orthodoxy.

We grew up in a village. Seven of the nine children never attended kindergarten. We observed all the fasts, including Wednesdays and Fridays, and even the little ones didn't eat dairy. If we ate or drank anything before communion, we didn't receive.

We prayed for twenty-five minutes every morning and night, often not starting the evening prayers until ten or eleven. We attended church every Sunday, often Saturdays too, and on feast days. I sang in the choir, my brothers served at the altar.

I'm the third child and the first girl. Whenever my mother was in the maternity ward, I stayed home in charge: putting the kids to bed, checking homework, cooking. I cried and called her because it was so hard. My father lacked patience with the children and was often absent. He drove us to the metro for school, but I don't recall him spending time with us or talking to me. He never asked how I was, didn't even know what grade I was in.

We were punished frequently. We were struck on the buttocks with hands and a belt, hard enough to leave bruises. We could also be hit on the back, shoved, sometimes slapped in the face in anger, with clothing, with a stick. Once my little brother misbehaved and my mother sat on him and stuffed a rag in his mouth to quiet him.

My father would splash us with cold water in the bathroom when we cried. We were made to kneel on buckwheat and stand in corners. The last severe punishment I received was around age thirteen; I had stripes of bruises because I hadn't picked up the little ones' toys, though no one had told me to. There's much more.

My mother can be verbally harsh. She would say things like "dirty pig," "what a lazy breed," "didn't you already get the belt this morning? Do you want it?", "get out, I don't want to see you," "go ahead and cry, I'm hurt too," "I didn't think you were this brainless." She never apologized afterward. My parents never apologized for their behavior, ever.

They never said they loved us, weren't particularly warm, and my father often spoke to us in a distant, strict manner.

I understand my mother runs out of patience, but she doesn't hide that she considers this normal. She says: "If a child doesn't know how to behave, he needs to be whipped, and harder. The earlier you start the better, after six it's too late." I have no words. She also often said we'd drive her to an early grave, that she'd die young because of us, that she has no free time and can't do anything for herself.

At seventeen I moved abroad and lived alone for almost four years. Now circumstances have brought me back to live with them for a year. Because of the war they moved to Europe, and they treat the younger children better now, but I still hear name-calling and they still sometimes smack a child. Yesterday my mother hit my eight-year-old brother hard on the neck and called him a ram several times because he forgot his jacket.

I'm twenty-two, my older brothers are twenty-four and twenty-six.

Main points

  • Whether rejecting the family model means she's stubborn or normal
  • Whether the abusive upbringing represents the ideal Orthodox family
  • Why having many children is seen as more pious than fewer raised with love
  • How to reconcile Orthodox teachings on discipline, gender roles, family size with her trauma
  • Difficulty relating to Orthodox men who expect traditional roles
19 opinions in the discussion 15 participants, 8 replies to each other The opinion with the most support By coming here, I think you already realize that a lot of the harm in your childhood didn't come from Orthodoxy's actual teachings and practices. It came from how your parents twisted them, and from the culture too. "So what am I supposed to do?" Well, you… Read the discussion
39 comments at the source Original on Reddit

Discussion · 19

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  • opinion#2133

    By coming here, I think you already realize that a lot of the harm in your childhood didn't come from Orthodoxy's actual teachings and practices. It came from how your parents twisted them, and from the culture too. "So what am I supposed to do?" Well, you were treated badly as a kid, and you're not a kid anymore. If someone treats you badly now, it will hurt, but it isn't the same as back then, because you're different now: you have more power, a different position, a different life. So given where you actually stand today, you're being invited to hand down a better humanity than the one you got, and you can do that through Jesus Christ. You can do it by having children and raising them with mercy and understanding, or by serving others in a different way, or both. Whichever road you take, the Church is Christ himself, and he loves you and can keep you standing even when you can't stand on your own.

    • opinion#2144

      Thanks for your comment. I get the argument that my parents might have misused the teaching, but separating that from Orthodoxy itself isn't easy for me. My dad is a spiritual father to many people, he preaches, and obviously he knows a lot about Orthodoxy. My mom read plenty of books about raising kids in the Orthodox faith. They didn't raise us this way just because they were raised that way. They drew heavily on Scripture, the saints, other priests, and their own spiritual father. So now, when I read certain saints or hear priests talking about things like physical punishment and having as many kids as possible, I don't know what to do with it. On the whole, I find it hard to tell where the actual teaching ends and the misuse or wrong understanding begins.

      • opinion#2147

        Not every spiritual leader gets everything right, but think about this: having as many children as possible means having as many as you can actually raise; you don't have as many as you can and then dump them on the street. And even the people who do approve of physical punishment, which isn't everyone, would say your mother calling you every kind of name and treating you unfairly was wrong. Do you have anyone in real life you trust, someone in the Church but a bit removed from your father's situation, that you could talk this over with?

      • opinion#2148

        This person's answers to you are right on. I'm an adult convert, and I can tell you this problem is separate from Orthodoxy. My mother would have blamed Catholicism. A friend would have said Baptist, another Islam. People of every religion and denomination use religious material to serve or justify their own ends. There's a whole Christian parenting group on Facebook with thousands of members arguing daily about "spare the rod". At some point you just tune out the noise. With your own kids it's trial and error. When you mess up, you know it, and you work on it. Or you try something and realize it doesn't fit you or your kids, so you go back to the drawing board. My advice: start working on forgiveness now, before you have kids. It will spare you heartache. I don't mean dropping boundaries, I mean pulling it out of your soul so it doesn't drag you down. Having your own kids will both help you understand your parents a bit better and leave you more baffled by their choices. Fasting with kids is actually pretty manageable without turning it into some crushing burden, so I wonder how your parents framed it (no need to answer). I don't know a single priest in real life who says keep having babies nonstop. The most recommended Orthodox parenting book right now, Parenting Towards the Kingdom, doesn't mention physical punishment by a parent's hand even once as far as I remember (it…

      • opinion#2149

        I had a grandma who disciplined me, but I sensed zero malice in it. I could subconsciously tell she did it out of respect, and I only got upset because I was spoiled. She died in 2020 and I miss her, and I feel like I was terribly ungrateful for having her. It's really not hard to tell when someone hits you whether it's personal. They have expectations of you. It's very easy to conclude your family struggles with moralism. Elder Joseph of Vatopedi gives an example of it phrased like this: "Why did he say that? That wasn't right. He shouldn't have said it. He could have said it better!" And that sounds a lot like us too. But the point is, being scandalized by someone is a lack of love, even if it feels like you're genuinely concerned for them and doing spiritual justice. One way to put it: real love is upset because it cares. Egotistical love cares because it is upset. Ego love tells you your anger is justified and shows you your neighbor's faults. Divine love puts you in the other person's shoes, doesn't grade their morality or take scandal, and instead feels pain that they do what they do. And it moves you to feel remorse, not pity. That's why the saints were "angry" at unrepentant sinners.

  • opinion#2134

    I grew up as a Protestant pastor's daughter, and from the outside we looked like the model family to the congregation, but behind closed doors it was another story. I know the dissonance you might be feeling. The way I was raised did real damage to my spiritual life and left me completely disillusioned with the beliefs I grew up in. The person of Christ is still what keeps me going, despite all of it.

  • opinion#2135

    There was a time when life was far more brutal and ruthless, full of a raw, primitive urgency we'd today associate only with a battlefield. Practically every part of human affairs leaned on, or fell back on, physical force a thousand times more readily than anything we could justify now. I know this because I study that more primitive world and the dangerous fragility that defined it. Long story short: plenty of people today look back at the methods of that world with no discernment at all. They wrongly imagine it was some timeless cure-all, when it was really just a tool of desperate expedience built for a very specific environment that not only doesn't exist today but can't return short of an apocalypse wiping out all modern knowledge and technology. You have my respects, my sympathy, and my prayers.

    • opinion#2145

      Yeah, that's a really good point. Tradition is great, but if it's about healing, I've always wondered whether leaning so hard on ancient techniques and practices creates problems of emphasis. It's probably a flawed way to think about it, but picture a doctor who prefers old treatments just because they're old and looks down on anything new.

      • opinion#2150

        For reference, I also grew up in a family that kept every fast from childhood, and our church life followed the same pattern the OP described. We prayed daily as kids, confessed monthly, never missed a feast day even on weekdays. Vespers, matins, liturgy, all of it, rain or shine. We were also a "model family" of the parish: choir, altar, clean-up, parish council, inseparable from the priest and his family, the whole thing. And we, parents and kids alike, were a disorganized, emotional mess in practically every other way you can imagine. Depression, ADHD, anxiety, Aspergers, OCD, shouting, crying, etc. But there was love. Our parents were kind and gentle. They openly repented of every failure. Today, if you ask them, they say they did everything wrong, and they mean it. They credit the fact that all four of us turned out to be well-adjusted, competent adults and pious churchgoers to everything but themselves. "By the grace of God," they say, "despite my sins." And that is exactly why everything they did in raising us was right: Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled....

      • opinion#2151

        And obviously the Church has grown more and more merciful over time. Certain sins in the ancient church meant you couldn't take Communion or even enter the church building for years. Now even the worst sins are punished far less. Our modern hearts couldn't bear the punishments of the past. I can't imagine being shut out of the Church for years because I couldn't stop fornicating or something like that. We have a very merciful God, and the Church became more merciful over time, as if God kept filling the Church with His mercy from an endless cup. I struggle a lot, as I know we all do, and I'm not Orthodox yet, but I'm trying to become Orthodox. I've asked about becoming a catechumen, but a lot of my own sins plus unavoidable church transitions have made it harder. Coming from a Baptist background, I wrestled a lot with legalism and internal OCD scrupulosity. So hearing about those old punishments made me feel I'd never manage to become Orthodox. But seeing the Church's mercy today has convinced me it really is possible. OP seems to have had abusive parents who refuse to admit their abuse was wrong. If you're reading this, OP, I'm sorry you went through that. My parent situation was very different, so I can't fully understand what you feel, but I want to say that what you experienced wasn't the ideal Orthodox family, from what I've learned about Orthodoxy. An absent father, a…

  • opinion#2136

    In nearly 30 years as an Orthodox Christian in the US, I've never heard that families must have as many children as possible, or that kids must be physically punished and shamed. Those sound like small-T traditions (and family dysfunction), not church teaching. FWIW, my husband was raised in an extremely conservative Protestant church in a family situation a lot like yours. He struggled with his faith as a young adult too. He got counseling, which helped. But today he says the Orthodox Church saved his faith in God. I hope you find healing and peace, and that you'll always know Christ's love for you (and your family). God be with you.

  • opinion#2137

    It matters to put a name on things that are genuinely abuse. You're right to question a lot of this, and I empathize with feeling stuck. I hope you can get some counselling to gain clarity, help your siblings, and find a way through this. The Holy Spirit can and will guide you, but you'll need to keep being courageous and open to seeing, and changing.

  • opinion#2138

    I think it matters to separate the actual Orthodox faith from what in your upbringing was child abuse. It is not OK to hit children, call them names, etc. That is not Orthodox. That is not normal and it is not OK. Verbal and physical abuse is NOT part of our religion. Could you maybe get into therapy? I'm so sorry this was your upbringing. Please don't give up on Orthodoxy. Or at the very least, please hold on to your faith in God. Ask Him for help and pray. You'll be in my prayers. Best wishes to you.

  • opinion#2139

    First of all, I'm so sorry for what happened to you in your childhood. We have to call abuse what it is. Not excusing your parents, but maybe they were raised the same way and it became generational trauma passed down to you and your siblings. I didn't go through the same thing, but coming from an Asian background I also had religious, strict parents. It turned me atheist in my 20s. Now I'm a catechumen after a lot of searching in my life. God is perfect, humans are not. I can't imagine the pain you must have felt. I'll pray for you and your family, God bless.

  • opinion#2140

    This reminds me a lot of my father's side of the family, the evangelical world I grew up in. Some of his brothers were hard-line about their version of Christianity and would hand out physical punishment to the point of abuse. I thank God my parents were never like that, even at their most fervent. One of those uncles in particular had all four of his sons (his daughters less so) abandon God altogether, though some of them did return to God in the best way they understood (my family has no awareness of Orthodoxy) before they died. But it made for a hard life for my uncle and his siblings: he buried three of his children before his own time came.

  • opinion#2141

    You have to accept that people, even your own family, will never be perfect. They grew up with a different background, shaped by a different mentality that formed their behaviour, their worldview and even their religion. That said, I believe parents who love their children, even for just one day, are TRYING their best with the knowledge they have (right or wrong) and the habits they have (good or bad). In their minds they want the best, they want perfection, but in practice they can't manage it, because none of us can. What made the difference for me was realizing they were wishing for the best in their own broken way, and I pray for that.

    • opinion#2146

      I know they want the best for us and for me. I think I'd feel guilty telling them about my hurt, because I understand very well that they were doing their best. I don't even think I hold resentment toward them for what I went through, but I do get angry now when I watch them hurting my siblings. And the hard part for me isn't understanding them, it's how all of it shaped the way I see certain things in Orthodoxy, like love, sin and forgiveness.

  • opinion#2142

    Not everyone is called to be a priest, or maybe they need to see their own priest and do their own deliverance, the same way counselors need to see counselors. I'm sorry for what you went through. I'm a catechumen, but I think you should try to have an open, direct and honest conversation with them, and they need to get counseling or help from the church. Nobody is perfect, but doing things like this over and over can count as abuse. If they're really believers they'll repent once they realize they did wrong. Sometimes people put others first so much that they neglect their own families, especially in ministry.

  • opinion#2143

    I was actually looking into orthodoxy, but the attitudes or culture you describe seem at odds with what I see as a theology that should produce far less of this than the western Christian view. For example, food doesn't matter much to me personally since I come from a poorer background where we eat whatever is cheap, so the fasting rules just struck me as unhelpful and kind of annoying, no offense meant to anyone. Orthodoxy at its best means less overextension of inner severity and more intensity on serving others selflessly in truth and love, while striving that leads to despair, cultural isolation or a lack of educated nuance only diminishes it. Always remember God loves you sister