What do Orthodox believe happens to babies who die before Baptism?

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• − opinion#3029 1 likes at the source

  God is love. He said let the little children come to me, and that unless you become like a little child you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. I hope that paints a picture of God's character and love for the innocent. Sin brought death into the world, but did not bring guilt upon the innocent. I'm just an inquirer, but that's my understanding. I'm so sorry for your loss and I pray your heart finds peace and shelter in God's endless love.

  • − opinion#3038 1 likes at the source

    "Sin brought death into the world, but did not bring guilt upon the innocent." Well said.
  • − opinion#3039 1 likes at the source

    This is the correct answer. Anyone who says they don't know, or says something different, is wrong and doesn't truly appreciate God's love toward all human beings. Any child, unborn or living, that dies is saved by God and is in heaven. Only once you reach the age of accountability does fully believing in the Lord and being baptized come into it. That age is probably around the later teen years. God understands their minds aren't mature and responsible until a certain point, and we as a society treat children differently than adults for good reason. I also don't buy that certain "pious" people or saints get "more" rewards for what they did. The overarching reward is eternal life and being with Jesus. What could compare to that? It's our fleshly mind that thinks more effort means more rewards, but that's not really biblical. Remember the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard, Matthew 20:1-16, where the landowner hired workers all through the day and paid them ALL equally one denarius. The earlier workers felt they deserved more. That parable makes the point that we will all be rewarded equally with eternal life and God's presence, no matter when we came to believe.
• − opinion#3030 1 likes at the source

  "The innocent babe has no such plague before its soul's eyes obscuring its measure of light, and so it continues to exist in that natural life; it does not need the soundness which comes from purgation, because it never admitted the plague into its soul at all." - St Gregory of Nyssa. The Orthodox Church does not believe in inherited sin. Your babies were naturally oriented towards God and never lost that orientation. They passed the same way they were made, in perfect communion with God, that is Paradise. They are with God. God bless you and your babies❤️

  • − opinion#3040 1 likes at the source

    That's a nice quote from St Gregory of Nyssa. "The Orthodox Church does not believe in inherited sin" - is that correct? I genuinely ask because I've come across something indicating otherwise: the Confession of Patriarch Dositheos of Jerusalem, Decree 6: "We believe the first man created by God to have fallen in Paradise, when, disregarding the divine commandment, he yielded to the deceitful counsel of the serpent. And hence hereditary sin flowed into his posteriority; so that none is born after the flesh who beareth not this burden, and experienceth not the fruits thereof in this present world."

    • − opinion#3044 1 likes at the source

      My understanding is it would be more precise to say we do not believe in inherited guilt. We believe in original sin, but with our own definition: an inherited susceptibility to temptation. Each person is only guilty of sins they actually commit. Someone who never actually gave in to temptation before dying (like the Theotokos, St John the Baptist, or presumably unborn babies) is sinless.
    • − opinion#3045 1 likes at the source

      We inherit a propensity for sin, not guilt.

      • − opinion#3048 1 likes at the source

        Different Eastern Orthodox priests teach different things. From the priests I talked to from Romania, we believe in the Ancestral Sin, which we all have from Adam, a sin and our fallen nature that likes sin, cleansed at Baptism. We have Bible verses for that. In America and other countries, some say it's a doctrine from Catholicism that we took, and that the only thing we inherit is the fallen nature, not sin or guilt. We also have Bible verses for this. Personally, I just choose to believe what the priests I talked to say, because if I'm against it I behave like a Protestant rebelling against the Church and get very easily angry. The best way to not be wrong is to say: I don't know for certain. Sorry, I'm not the best documented person here, I just struggled with what the right doctrine is. A Russian nun told me to just talk to a priest rather than listen to people on the internet, without giving her own opinion or what she was taught.

        • − opinion#3049 1 likes at the source

          That's great advice for many things, but ancestral guilt is the difference between theosis and substitutionary atonement. It's not a matter of personal piety, it is soteriological. The Romanians in America are notorious for communing heretics that other bishops have excommunicated. Protestants have no accountability and they make up strange theology. Orthodoxy depends on an educated and engaged laity.

          • − opinion#3050 1 likes at the source

            >ancestral guilt is the difference between theosis and substitutionary atonement Honestly, I don't know how ancestral guilt affects these. Please explain or tell me what to read if you want me to understand. >The Romanians in America are notorious for communing heretics that other bishops have excommunicated I don't live in America, but what you're saying doesn't mean there aren't good, well-intended and educated priests in Romania. Lastly, although education is important, most of our martyrs who are Saints were not so educated, some were just people who saw a miracle, believed, and were killed for it. How we live the Gospel matters more than what we know.

            • − opinion#3051 1 likes at the source

              Theosis teaches the image of God is complete within us and we choose to control our passions to make that image more of who we are. If you are born guilty, then the image of God is broken and needs to be fixed from the outside. I'd recommend reading St Gregory of Nyssa and St Basil the Great. They were brothers from a family of saints who disagreed on a lot, but both are saints and brilliant theologians. Do you intend to die soon? If not, martyrs are not the saints you should be looking at. If you intend to live a full Christian life, look at saints who did that. And saints who lived to old age were almost all highly educated.
            • − opinion#3052 1 likes at the source

              Romanian bishops are not in line with other bishops in the world. Specifically, they are proponents of white supremacy throughout the world, which is an actual heresy. So yeah, there is a scope of Orthodoxy, and it's usually a good idea to trust faithful priests to do their best, but when a group of bishops makes a habit of communing people other bishops excommunicated for heresy, you need a little discernment, friend.
    • − opinion#3046 1 likes at the source

      My understanding as a cradle orthodox with just a modicum of reading is that we in the east do not theologically believe in original sin as an inherited "stain" from Adam and Eve. Sin is everywhere in the world like a plague or sickness, not something we're born with that needs erased, so we have no reason to need "limbo" or an explanation for what happens before baptism. Christ was pretty clear to the thief on the cross, and about how he felt about children and babes. I think it would be incredibly messed up to believe an all-loving, all-knowing God would reject innocent babies and children.
• − opinion#3031 1 likes at the source

  "But parents can also be helped in the death of children. They should know that, from that instant, they have an intercessor in Paradise. When they die, their children will come with the six-winged angels to the gate of Paradise to greet their soul. This is not a small matter! To small children who were further burdened here by sicknesses or by some disability, Christ will say: 'Come to Paradise, and receive the greatest portion.' And then they will tell Him: 'It is beautiful here, our Christ, but we want our mommy to be near us.' And Christ will hear them and save the mother also in some manner." St. Paisios. I'm so so sorry for your losses. May their memories be eternal and may you be reunited in Paradise.

  • − opinion#3041 1 likes at the source

    Also, you may find peace in an icon of The Protector of the Unborn. I printed, framed and hung one next to the ultrasound photo. We also prayed the Akathist to Theotokos, The Joy of Those in Sorrow, and that gave me a place to properly grieve.
• − opinion#3032 1 likes at the source

  Strictly speaking, we don't know for certain. Several saints note that infants who die before baptism merit neither punishment (no personal sin) nor reward (no virtues acquired in Christ). Some, like St. Augustine, are more pessimistic and hold that they go to Hades like any non-Christian, but at its mildest degree: no punishment, but not with Christ either. Some, like St. Ephraim the Syrian, are more optimistic, holding that they not only reach Paradise but rank among the greatest saints, since they were never stained by vice. Some, like St. Gregory of Nyssa, are more neutral, saying we simply cannot know, but we must trust God's providence, love, mercy and justice for all mankind. Liturgically, though, things like the commemoration of the innocent infants of Bethlehem slaughtered by Herod point to something very optimistic. Granted, those children are set apart because they suffered alongside Christ, the target of the massacre. But it's not a far leap to suspect the same sainthood goes to all unbaptized infants who die unjustly; even if not murdered, they die from circumstances entirely outside their control, innocent victims even if only of the disease of original sin. So it seems to me the vast majority of clergymen would say we should trust God will save them; we don't have more compassion for His creatures than He does. (I say "vast majority" because I know of clergymen…

  • − opinion#3042 1 likes at the source

    Even if St Augustine says they're in Hades, he means it in the sense that Hades is where the dead await the final judgment and resurrection. Where Abraham had been waiting. So not like a bad place.
• − opinion#3033 1 likes at the source

  Babies who die before even being born certainly cannot go to hell. Gregory of Nyssa is (famously) quite explicit about that. Their "reward" or "enjoyment" in heaven won't be as great as a saint who struggled and acquired all the virtues before death. But they have no wickedness to be punished for. It's perfectly appropriate to ask for their intercessions. I forget who now, but a more recent saint said they'd be enjoying heaven but would tell God, something like, "But I want my mommy and daddy here too."

  • − opinion#3043 1 likes at the source

    I believe the more recent saint you're thinking of is St. Paisios the Athonite. "...But parents can also be helped by the death of children. They should know that, from that instant, they have an intercessor in Paradise. When they die, their children will come with the six-winged angels to the gate of Paradise to greet their soul. This is not a small matter! To small children who were further burdened here by sicknesses or some disability, Christ will say: 'Come to Paradise, and receive the greatest portion.' And then they will tell Him: 'It is beautiful here, our Christ, but we want our mommy to be near us.' And Christ will hear them and save the mother also in some manner."

    • − opinion#3047 1 likes at the source

      Yes, that's exactly the quote I had in mind, thanks for posting it!
• − opinion#3034 1 likes at the source

  As far as I remember there's no official dogmatic decree on where exactly they go, but the idea that they may "go to hell" for not being baptized is strongly rejected. St. Gregory the Theologian wrote that unbaptized babies may not be glorified in the highest heavens since they lacked the seal of baptism, but there's no way they'll be punished in hell since they committed no sin, most likely occupying a state of eternal peace and joy. Trust the boundless love, justice, and mercy of God; all these babies are or will be saved.
• − opinion#3035 1 likes at the source

  So sorry for your losses. We lost our firstborn to a miscarriage many years ago. God bless you friend. Orthodoxy doesn't hold the Western view of sin. Sin is seen more as illness than crime in Orthodoxy. Christ came to save us not from an angry and offended God but from our sin, and the physical and spiritual death it causes. So we inherit the effects of sin: a fallen nature (not a sinful nature), death and corruption, not guilt. Infants are mortal because of Adam's sin but aren't guilty of anything. They are innocent and God loves them. They are in His presence. Hell is for people who reject God's offer of salvation and don't want the healing and transformation (theosis) He offers. He gives them what they want. Please read this article, it explains the Orthodox view quite well.
• − opinion#3036 1 likes at the source

  It's not that they didn't go to heaven; people pray for them because they want them to be closer and closer to God. Heaven isn't a geographical place of enjoyment, nor is hell a place of torture, but rather union with God. Union with God can be understood in degrees, so your babies who passed away can still be drawn closer to God through the prayers of the living, and their prayers can in turn aid us and draw us closer to God.
• − opinion#3037 1 likes at the source

  OP, multiple priests who have ministered to my spouse and me across several jurisdictions have told us, without prompting, that our miscarried baby is a little intercessor in heaven. Ours was very early, but we named him/her and interred them at a monastery and it has brought us great comfort. The monastics also called the baby "sinless." We named the baby after one of the bodiless powers. We have a young infant right now, our only, and I've asked for their prayers many times during difficult nights. I'm still so sad I never met them in this life, but hopefully in the next. I'm really sorry for your losses.