Pentecostal considering Orthodoxy: two concerns before becoming a catechumen

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• − opinion#893 11 likes at the source

  He is risen! Both concerns are fair, especially from a Pentecostal background. On icons, Orthodoxy doesn't teach that wood, paint, or the person depicted is God. Worship belongs to God alone. There's a distinction between worship and veneration. The honor shown to an icon passes to the person depicted, like kissing a Bible or a photo of a loved one doesn't mean you worship paper. Scripture doesn't forbid sacred images absolutely either. God Himself commands cherubim on the Ark in Exodus 25:18-22, and the Temple was full of carved cherubim, palms, and other imagery in 1 Kings 6. The golden calf was condemned because Israel made an image into a god and worshiped it. Same with the bronze serpent, destroyed when it became an object of worship in 2 Kings 18:4. The issue is idolatry, not sacred imagery existing. Peter and Cornelius is similar. Peter refuses the honor because Cornelius seems to treat him as more than a man. Orthodoxy doesn't worship saints as gods. The deeper reason icons matter is the Incarnation. God truly became visible in Jesus Christ. We're not depicting the invisible divine essence. We depict Christ because He genuinely took flesh and could be seen, touched, and portrayed. On evangelization, that's actually a fair criticism. Some Orthodox parishes can become culturally insular, and that should be challenged. But Orthodoxy isn't anti-missionary. Saints Cyril…
• − opinion#894 10 likes at the source

  Is there a lack of evangelization? Maybe between the thousands of new people coming into the church and all the new churches being planted, I've missed it. :-) I just got back from seven years planting churches in the Philippines. A couple years ago I helped launch a new Orthodox community in South Dakota and we baptized a number of men in the nearby state prison. Now I'm assigned to a mission here in Washington State, where about a third of the people on a Sunday are inquirers asking about Christ, and we're teaching and preparing them for baptism. The Orthodox mission to the North American mission field is making disciples everywhere I look.
• − opinion#895 6 likes at the source

  Icons get discussed constantly in this subreddit, so I'll skip that since you can search the other threads for tons of info. On evangelization: be the change you want to see, because evangelism in Orthodoxy is severely lacking, especially compared to what you're used to as a Pentecostal (I grew up in the Assemblies of God). What has helped me some is realizing we ARE the mission field for Orthodoxy, since there isn't much presence here (in the US, that is). I go to an Orthodox mission. It's small, the choir isn't very good, it's disorganized at times, we don't have much money, but it's home. I know there's more to blame than just Orthodoxy not being big in the USA; it's also a cultural problem within the church. But if you want a soup kitchen, help start one at your new parish if they don't have one. Homeless outreach, books for prisoners, whatever your passion is. Orthodoxy could use an infusion of that evangelical zeal at times, though I'd caution there's a difference between wanting to help someone and just being annoying. Nobody wants the Gospel yelled at them constantly or reminded they need Orthodoxy or whatever other heavy-handed tactics were common in evangelical circles. Become Orthodox, approach people with love and humility, and help spread the word.
• − opinion#896 3 likes at the source

  Indeed He is risen! I was raised in a very iconoclastic, hyper-Reformed Calvinist environment, where religious images were treated with a lot of suspicion out of fear they could become idolatry, so I understand much of your concern. What helped me was hearing a couple priests explain the distinction between an icon and an idol, and between reverence and worship. An icon opens outward beyond itself. When I reverence an icon, I'm not reverencing wood and paint because I think there's some independent spiritual power trapped inside the object. The honor shown to the image passes to the prototype, the saint depicted, much like kissing the photograph of someone you love isn't devotion to glossy paper. And with a saint, I'm not treating that human as a god. I'm honoring a person made in the image of God, someone in whom the life and grace of God have borne fruit. The icon points beyond itself and beyond the saint as an isolated individual toward the God who made them holy. An idol works the opposite way. It closes the created thing in on itself and gives it what belongs to God alone. The created thing gets treated as the source rather than a gift pointing beyond itself to the Giver. That distinction helped me enormously, because idolatry is much bigger than "someone made a religious image." An ideology can become an idol. A nation can become an idol. A political identity can become…
• − opinion#897 2 likes at the source

  Truly he is risen! I was non denominational before becoming orthodox and was in almost the exact same boat. 1) I think Protestants really get in their head over Icons. Others already explained the theological reasoning, so my advice is to just go to an Orthodox Church and SEE how icons are used/treated during worship. I think the mental image most people have is off from what actual practice looks like. 2) I don't fully understand your objection here? For orthodox Christians, the primary concern is living your life as best you can, not converting others. Saint Seraphim of Sarov once said "Acquire the spirit of peace, and thousands around you will be saved," so while debates and stuff have benefit, our most convincing missionary work is living in the world as a Christian. God bless brother!

  • − opinion#902 2 likes at the source

    Jesus commanded us to go and baptize and make disciples? That's why it should be the first concern in ministry

    • − opinion#903 2 likes at the source

      That's an important commandment the Orthodox Church DOES live out - look how much Christianity spread historically and Orthodoxy's current growth in the west - but our spiritual lives are based on our relationship with Christ and how we lived our lives, not on the number of people we convert.
    • − opinion#904 1 likes at the source

      I do think Orthodox should evangelize more, but evangelization should also be respectful and mindful. Not saying it about all Protestants, but especially here in the US I think it often crosses lines and actually damages our reputation. I personally think a lot of street preachers and door-to-door missionaries damage Christianity more than they help. In my opinion, doing debates at high levels, explaining what you believe carefully and deeply, living your life at the Christian standard, and helping others around you is much better than a lot of what counts as ministry in many circles. While I do think we need to evangelize more, we need to do it in a meaningful manner, especially in historically Christian countries or in "first world countries". I genuinely don't understand street preachers in the US. To me honestly, it often feels more repulsive than "Oh, I should check out what these people believe". But it's also just an important conversation all Christians should have in my opinion
• − opinion#898 2 likes at the source

  To be frank, part of the reason we dont evangelize outwardly as much is that we cant-- or at least we're out of practice. Orthodoxy has been persecuted a lot throughout history, especially modern history. Orthodox missionary efforts are about being integrated into and serving a whole community-- it's no small effort. We are just getting to the point where the church is big enough and free enough to really start making an effort. If you want to learn more you can check out current efforts at OCMC.org
• − opinion#899 2 likes at the source

  1) We venerate the person or event depicted, we worship Jesus Christ alone. The golden calf was not venerated, they worshiped it as God. When I kiss a photo of my deceased father, I am venerating him, not worshiping him. 2) You're correct, we don't have bull horns on street corners. We live our faith daily with daily prayers, almsgiving and fasting. We let our fruits and our example be our evangelizing. We have worldwide missionaries such as the International Orthodox Christian Charities (IOCC) and support causes all around the world.
• − opinion#900 2 likes at the source

  (Im not expert but) Spirits enter our world by embodying something. In genesis in hebrew it says we are created as idols of God (to live in), its just translated as images. So while the pagans build hollow bronze calfs and invite spirits to live inside them and then sacrifice their kids to them; we realize we are supposed to invite God into this world by allowing the Holy Spirit into our hearts, thus becoming fulfilled as idols of God. Those who have succeeded and finished the race we honor and look up to. Plus we ask them to pray for us to achieve the same goal, as they are very well alive in Christ right at this moment. E: so the icons are just images, they are not idols for the spirits to live in
• − opinion#901 1 likes at the source

  Look up Father Barnabas Powell and Faith Encouraged Ministries on FB and YouTube. He was a Pentecostal preacher who is now a Greek Orthodox priest. His content was very helpful to me, a former Pentecostal, when I converted over 11 years ago.