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Critique of PAM's authority and a speaker's claim that Orthodoxy alone is Christianity

What the video says

The speaker argues that Christianity originated in the East, not the United States, and rejects the claim that the Holy Spirit or God failed there. He attributes the decline of Christian influence in the East to believers abandoning their first love, embracing false doctrine, and becoming lukewarm. He strongly objects to equating Eastern Orthodoxy with charismatic or reform Western Christianity, stating they have completely different doctrines.

He asserts that the critic's church lacks the Eucharist and has zero resemblance to Christianity, declaring that there is only one Christianity, Orthodoxy. He criticizes Philip Anthony Mitchell for making blanket claims about the East without theological objection and for never discussing theology.

Key moments

  1. Christianity was born in the East, not the United States, and the East now appears like a tomb regarding Christian influence.
  2. The Holy Spirit did not fail, God did not fail, and Jesus is not weak.
  3. Believers in the East abandoned their first love, embraced false doctrine, and became lukewarm.
  4. Eastern Orthodoxy and charismatic or reform Western Christianity are completely different with completely different doctrine.
  5. The critic's church has zero resemblance to Christianity and does not have the Eucharist.
  6. There is one Christianity, and it is Orthodoxy; Philip Anthony Mitchell and parallel churches are not part of it.
  7. Philip Anthony Mitchell never talks about theology and makes blanket claims about the East without theological objection.
  8. The speaker asks why Mitchell cannot define what being lukewarm or falling away means, ending with 'Lord have mercy on us all.'

The post shares a video in which a speaker argues that Christianity originated in the East, not the United States, and rejects the idea that the Holy Spirit or God failed there. The speaker attributes the decline of Christian influence in the East to believers abandoning their first love, embracing false doctrine, and becoming lukewarm.

He draws a sharp distinction between Eastern Orthodoxy and charismatic or reform Western Christianity, saying they have completely different doctrines. He states that the critic's church lacks the Eucharist and bears zero resemblance to Christianity, declaring that there is only one Christianity and it is Orthodoxy. The speaker criticizes Philip Anthony Mitchell for making blanket claims about the East without theological objection and for never discussing theology.

The post's author adds a series of questions directed at Mitchell: by what authority he calls something error, where his historical continuity lies, why someone ought not be lukewarm, whether he can define lukewarm, and why he never addresses doctrine but only offers emotional appeals. The author wonders if this relates to a group Mitchell is trying to attract.

The discussion centers on competing claims of ecclesial authority, the definition of apostolic continuity, and the role of doctrine versus emotional rhetoric in Christian identity.

Main points

  • Speaker asserts Christianity began in the East and denies the Holy Spirit failed there
  • Decline in the East attributed to abandoned first love, false doctrine, and lukewarmness
  • Eastern Orthodoxy and Western charismatic or reform Christianity called completely different in doctrine
  • Speaker says critic's church lacks the Eucharist and has zero resemblance to Christianity
  • Post author questions Mitchell's authority, historical continuity, definition of lukewarm, and avoidance of theology
26 opinions in the discussion 22 participants, 8 replies to each other The opinion with the most support 2819 has brought more people back to the faith in the last year than orthodoxy has in the last decade. Let's be real and get off the "I'm more Christian than you" high horse. And you also couldn't refute his point. Where's this "one true and only church"… Read the discussion
388 comments at the source Original on Instagram

Discussion · 26

Opinions are anonymous retellings of real comments from the original discussion. The same colour marks the same participant.

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  • opinion#610

    2819 has brought more people back to the faith in the last year than orthodoxy has in the last decade. Let's be real and get off the "I'm more Christian than you" high horse. And you also couldn't refute his point. Where's this "one true and only church" presence? Why is the most consistent thing from orthodox followers "holier than thou" preaching?

    • opinion#623

      Do you realize there are more Orthodox Christians worldwide than Pentecostals?

    • opinion#624

      That doesn't answer my question. I mean faith centered on conversion, not faith by inheritance. That same logic is what Muslims use to call themselves the fastest growing faith. Sure, by birth rate, meaning inheritance, not conversion.

    • opinion#625

      "Has brought more people to the faith"? What faith are you even talking about? His deluded, performative church is not Christianity. It looks nothing like what Christ left behind. Dumb argument.

    • opinion#626

      2819 is grounds for heresy. Heretics everywhere.

    • opinion#627

      Haven't they noticed the huge surge of converts coming into Orthodoxy from exactly these kinds of places?

    • opinion#628

      Here come his holy worshiping followers to defend him 😂

    • opinion#629

      See, I wouldn't dispute that. But the surge started somewhere, and it wasn't orthodoxy. Not to mention, basically everyone I've seen convert to orthodoxy has drifted further from Christ and hides behind theological accuracy instead of actually living holy. Anyway, again, you're not refuting my points.

    • opinion#630

      I have never seen, outside of one man, orthodox followers stand or preach on their own ground without just trying to tear down other denominations. How can you call one church heretics when the other's entire social presence is built on pride and judgement?

  • opinion#622

    He didn't air the part of his pod with Jay where the actual debate was. He wants community, which is understandable. But community is here, in the Orthodox Church, where the only truth is.

  • opinion#607

    Judging without checking for fruit is ignorant, but one truth still stands: turkey fell and Asia fell too, martyrs or no martyrs. And this man stood up and said we should all be one, not split by denominations. We could learn a lot more if we didn't just blindly bicker like toddlers.

  • opinion#605

    I don't get your argument or why you need to divide over this. How is he leading people to lukewarm faith? Do you know how many lukewarm Christians I've heard get convicted or saved hearing a sermon from PAM? You act like the pulpit is supposed to be dry and boring. I don't even know what you're attacking. Is he wrong that believers stood down in the east? Explain that when the majority of the middle east is muslim!! Barely any resemblance of a biblical church, and why, because it's big? The first sermon was preached in a "mega"church. Is it because you think he lacks the authority to make the Eucharist the true body and blood? Is that a salvational issue? NO! PAM is leading a revival while you slander over 2nd and 3rd tier issues. May the Lord rebuke you and correct you.

  • opinion#606

    You all really aren't afraid of hearing "depart from me, I never knew you," huh? Orthodox and catholics do little to nothing to spread the gospel, so when protestants actually do it, you cherry pick and pick on new believers. One true church? What a joke. Jesus is the beginning and the end, not you or your church. We literally take part in the eucharist too, but you're ignorant, just another pharisee. Just another "I'm holier than thou" type, what an actual joke. Where are your balls going head to head against other faiths, islam specifically?

  • opinion#608

    People who don't get that churches not in communion with each other split for very serious doctrinal reasons just look at what they call "schism" and think "oh look, your family is broken up too!" The faith Christ and the Apostles handed down cannot be changed, and if someone changes it, the cancer has to be cut out to preserve that Faith. It's not "schism" so much as protecting the faithful and the Church, which protestantism has none of. Literally anyone can believe anything and still call themselves Christian and yap for an hour in front of people. There's no defense against heretics or heresies. The Church, which has been a bulwark against them for 2,000 years, has the authority. PAM and men like him don't.

  • opinion#609

    I'd need to see more from him before calling him a snake oil salesman, but having said that, I think he's like the rest of us converts were at one point: ignorant. He flexes that he never went to seminary, and I don't know if that's good or bad given protestant theology 😂, but it's obvious he hasn't read a church father, a council, or even the Didache. Some of us have been waist deep in that blasphemy and came to "The True Faith" we chant in Liturgy. I don't think he knows more than your average protestant, and being a "pastor" doesn't mean he isn't as ignorant as the people in those pews hearing false doctrine.

  • opinion#611

    By your logic, the orthodox did their best to defend the orthodox faith but failed miserably against islam. What caused the downfall of orthodox church unity before islam arrived? The orthodox churches were in quarrels with each other over minor theological differences, and those churches often backed the two big empires of the time. Out of hate, both orthodox churches ended up supporting islamic caliphate leadership after those two great empires fell, and the result was the annihilation of the majority of eastern orthodox churches in the middle east. The person is right about you guys, you left your first love, come back to Christ and become one in Christ. That person is really concerned about the western CATHOLIC (both protestant and roman catholic) church, because the same filth that destroyed the eastern orthodox church is creeping into the western catholic church, and various church leaders are welcoming that filth into their congregations.

  • opinion#612

    John 4:23 "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks." You larper orthos don't get to say what kind of worship is right or wrong when Jesus already stated it. Sinful click baiters.

  • opinion#613

    He went to modern day turkey, which is dominated by Muslims now, so I get his experience, but it wasn't always like that. I came to orthodoxy because being protestant gave me nothing... I feel at home now, thanks be to God the Father.

  • opinion#614

    Bruther... I was traveling through Greece, visited a Greek orthodox monastery, and on every corner of every little town there were at least 2-3 Greek Orthodox chapels, more common than a Baptist church in the US! He says some crazy lines, but it's sad his theology isn't truth 🇻🇦☦️

  • opinion#615

    Read Hebrews 9, read the letters of Saint Ignatius of Antioch (who was literally held by Christ as a child and taught by the Apostles). Liturgical worship existed before Christ; the offering of bread and wine to become the body and blood of Christ for the people was the beginning of the church.

  • opinion#616

    In Eastern Europe, sure, there are many lukewarm people, but to say they're like tombs with no Christian influence is straight up ignorance. You can see the results of Christian influence in their culture: monasticism, language, church buildings, relics, the works of the Saints, hymns going back hundreds to 2 thousand years. Sorry if your definition of Christian influence is just drawing crowds to scam their money and offering them everything except genuine sacrifice and love for Christ. Yeah, he got us on lukewarmness, we can agree some of that exists, but the difference is that guy in the clip isn't even Christian, not even part of Christ's church.

  • opinion#617

    I'm inquiring into Orthodoxy and went to my first Divine Liturgy a few weeks ago... I still can't fully process everything I saw. It was overstimulating, beautiful, and mysterious all at once. I want to go back the next time I'm off work.

  • opinion#618

    Would this strong muscular preacher be willing to die rather than stand firm for his faith? He'd flip and run instantly. Christians in the east have been martyred more than any Christians anywhere else. This dude doesn't know the first thing about Christians who accept death instead of converting or denying our beliefs. He may have a tomb, but he clearly hasn't accepted humility or the willingness to lose everything for his faith. He can't comprehend spiritual strength.

  • opinion#619

    He only dares to say this because nobody has educated him on real history. Eastern Christians have suffered the most brutal persecution, martyrdom, and centuries of occupation under Islamic rule, yet they kept the Apostolic Faith intact. While the East stood as the blood soaked shield protecting Europe, giving the West the safety to philosophize and fracture into thousands of man made sects, Eastern Orthodoxy kept the faith unbroken. Calling the Church of the Martyrs "lukewarm" isn't just historical ignorance, it's spiritual arrogance. Come tell me that after 500+ years under the Ottoman Empire, come tell me after thousands were killed and we still kept the faith. Shame on such people.

  • opinion#620

    It cracks me up that we can all agree Christ exists and believe in his finished work, yet still act like our way is the only right way. He literally tells people to read the bible and not depend on him. You might not like his methods, but he's clearly a voice from the real one true god who sent his son to die for us. Posts like this just rip the body of Christ apart because we're too busy calling anyone who doesn't preach the way we want a false teacher. Just read the bible, that's always the best source of truth.

  • opinion#621

    How many people have you brought to Christ? You come across more offended and hurt than offering loving correction. I've been to Eastern Orthodox churches and they're the only church that made me want to stop being non-denominational. At their communion gatherings, if I mentioned his video, they wouldn't talk like this. You can disagree with someone without discrediting them. This is exactly why the church is split now. Correction with no love, unrighteous judgement and racist undertoned jokes in the comments. If church division is as serious as you claim, act like it.