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Icons, idolatry, and the Incarnation: a response to the biblical objection

1:02

What the video says

The speaker addresses the objection that kissing icons constitutes idolatry and that the Bible forbids images. He cites Exodus 20's prohibition against making images for worship, then points to Exodus 25 where God commands Moses to make golden cherubim for the Ark of the Covenant.

The Seventh Ecumenical Council in 787 distinguished worship due to God alone from the honor given to icons, which passes to the person depicted. The speaker compares kissing an icon to kissing a photograph of one's family, the affection is for the persons, not the paper. He quotes Saint John of Damascus: "I do not worship matter. I worship the Creator of matter, who became matter for my sake." Because God became visible in the Incarnation, He can now be depicted in icons.

Key moments

  1. The speaker raises the question whether kissing icons is idolatry and whether the Bible forbids images.
  2. Exodus 20 prohibits making images to worship them.
  3. Exodus 25 records God commanding Moses to make two golden cherubim for the Ark of the Covenant.
  4. The Council of 787 taught that worship belongs to God alone while icons receive honor that passes to the person depicted.
  5. The speaker uses the analogy of kissing a photograph of his wife and son, the love is for them, not the paper.
  6. Saint John of Damascus is quoted: "I do not worship matter. I worship the Creator of matter, who became matter for my sake."
  7. The Incarnation, God becoming a visible man, is the basis for depicting Christ in icons.
  8. The speaker asks the viewer what still bothers them about icons.

The speaker addresses the objection that kissing icons constitutes idolatry and that the Bible forbids images. He begins by citing Exodus 20, which prohibits making images for the purpose of worshiping them. He then points to Exodus 25, where God commands Moses to make two golden cherubim for the Ark of the Covenant, showing that not all images are forbidden.

The Seventh Ecumenical Council, held in 787, formally distinguished between the worship due to God alone and the honor given to icons, explaining that the honor passes to the person depicted. The speaker illustrates this distinction with a personal analogy: kissing a photograph of his wife and son is an expression of love for them, not for the paper itself.

He quotes Saint John of Damascus, who wrote, "I do not worship matter. I worship the Creator of matter, who became matter for my sake." The Incarnation, in which God became a visible man, is the basis for depicting Christ in icons. The speaker concludes by asking the viewer what still bothers them about icons.

13 opinions in the discussion 10 participants, 7 replies to each other The opinion with the most support Jesus said nothing about it, and none of the apostles did either. Jesus is our great high priest, our intercession and our great advocate who pleads our case in heaven before the Lord God. Read the discussion
26 comments at the source Original on Instagram

Discussion · 13

Opinions are anonymous retellings of real comments from the original discussion. The same colour marks the same participant.

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  • opinion#1935

    Jesus said nothing about it, and none of the apostles did either. Jesus is our great high priest, our intercession and our great advocate who pleads our case in heaven before the Lord God.

    • opinion#1936

      Neither Jesus, the apostles, or any other prophet spoke about brushing your teeth or bathing yourself. Do you do either of those things?

    • opinion#1937

      Don't try and be smart. It's all about Jesus. He said nothing about circumcision, with the result that Paul went to James, the brother of Jesus, to ask about it. Paul thus deduces that it was to be ignored.

    • opinion#1938

      Not trying to be smart. I'm putting a spotlight on your illogical thought process.

    • opinion#1939

      The error you're making is the argument from ignorance/silence fallacy.

    • opinion#1940

      Were you there? No you weren't. Did you read all biblical scripture or just what was accessible to you? Don't comment on such biblical scripture unless you come with proof to support that Christ did not say such things, nor the apostles who you never met nor read their journals…

    • opinion#1941

      When a soldier kisses a picture of his wife on the battlefield, is he loving the paper or his wife?

    • opinion#1942

      When someone kisses a picture of their dead child, do you really think this person wastes any thought on the paper or is completely focused on the love for their dead child? When I kiss the Icon of Jesus, do you think I waste any thought on the wooden board, or are all my thoughts and my heart turned and focused on Jesus and his love and sacrifice for me? Guess you know the answer!

  • opinion#1931

    People always forget this line from John 5:16: the effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. If you agree you can pray for people and that other people's prayers have merit, then asking a Saint to pray for you is no different. They are still alive in Christ, just not in their old bodies. You can pray to Christ and rally other righteous people around your prayers, INCLUDING the Saints, not just your brothers and sisters at church. That's the principle of veneration.

  • opinion#1934

    I grew up in the Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Church. I love the beauty of our icons. Reverent artwork. They are reminders of holy people that brought the faith to where we are today. I don't worship the icons, just like I don't worship the persons in the icons. They are just reminders, symbols. Some people can't make that distinction. Great post!🙏🏻

  • opinion#1930

    A couple of false equivalencies here… what's done toward icons is not the same as a picture of a relative or family member, since you're not asking the icon to intercede for you. Second, the angels on the Mercy seat reflected the heavenly reality, angels around God's throne. When the Israelites bowed and worshipped before the Ark, they weren't asking the angels for anything. They were addressing God in the place he ordained for that.

  • opinion#1932

    I understand what you said, it's always the same answer Catholics and Orthodox give. God, Christ doesn't need anyone's help to get to him, he is very capable of answering our prayers. I know he answers my prayers and accepts my worship. To me I don't understand the veneration of the saints, I really don't. All who have eternal life are saints but the one who saved us was Jesus. I was brought up around all of that and went with what I saw around me, but when I finally saw and understood for myself the sacrifice of Christ it changed me. No more looking to man but to Christ.

  • opinion#1933

    But that icon is not Christ and you shouldn't bow down to them or kneel in front of them praying to them, they can't hear, simple as that. If I kiss a picture of my parents it's because I know them and that's really them, but nobody knows how these icons looked. Just speculation!!