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Why the Church Existed Before the New Testament

The speaker argues that sola scriptura is inconsistent because the New Testament emerged from the life of the Church, not the reverse. The apostles and their disciples baptized, celebrated the liturgy, prayed for the dead, and taught the faith orally for decades before any books were written. Christ established a church, not a book, and the first Christians relied entirely on the apostles and the traditions they passed on.

The same Church that preserved those traditions later discerned which books belong in the New Testament, a process that took more than three hundred years after the Resurrection. Trusting the Bible while rejecting the Church's way of life, prayer, and worship is compared to accepting a letter but ignoring the sender's face-to-face teaching.

The speaker cites St. John's statement that Jesus did many other things not recorded, indicating not everything was written down. The Bible remains central to belief, but it must be read within the Church that wrote it, kept it, and transmitted it to the world.

Key moments

  1. Sola scriptura claims the Bible is the only final authority and tradition is man-made.
  2. The New Testament was written by apostles and their disciples who baptized, celebrated the liturgy, prayed for the dead, and taught the faith by word of mouth before anything was written down.
  3. Christ never wrote a book; he built a church.
  4. For years after the resurrection, the first Christians had no New Testament, only the apostles and the traditions they passed on.
  5. The church that kept those traditions decided which books belong in the Bible, a process that took more than 300 years.
  6. It is inconsistent to trust the book these people wrote and chose while rejecting how they lived, prayed, and worshipped.
  7. St. John wrote that Jesus did many other things not recorded, implying not everything was written down.
  8. The Bible is the heart of belief but must be read as it was always read inside the church that wrote it, kept it, and gave it to the world.
12 opinions in the discussion 11 participants, 4 replies to each other The opinion with the most support The Bible is the map to Our Lord, Holy Tradition is the car, the Sacraments are the fuel and the saints are the signs pointing you to the destination… Easy to get lost and exhausted if you don't have a guide showing you you're on the right track and an… Read the discussion
21 comments at the source Original on Instagram

Discussion · 12

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  • opinion#3167

    The Bible is the map to Our Lord, Holy Tradition is the car, the Sacraments are the fuel and the saints are the signs pointing you to the destination… Easy to get lost and exhausted if you don't have a guide showing you you're on the right track and an effective means of getting there.

  • opinion#3164

    Very cheap arguments, my brother. 1) The bible starts with the Old Testament, and the OT is bigger than the new: 39 vs 27. The first apostles used manuscripts. Peter refers in 2 Peter 3:16 to the letters of Paul that were already being sent out to the Christians. So my question is: when tradition contradicts the bible, which one wins?

    • opinion#3169

      What tradition contradicts the Bible? You ask that question but give no theological argument to back it up.

    • opinion#3170

      39 books? Seems like you're missing about 10. So if you hold sola scriptura, are you forbidden to read the books your protestant reformers removed? What about the Didache? This is why sola scriptura is logically invalid: which scriptures are we supposed to adhere to solely?

    • opinion#3171

      Did Mary eventually have sexual relations with Joseph, or did she remain a virgin for the rest of her life?

    • opinion#3172

      No problem adding the other 10. Some of the extras are common to the Orthodox and Protestants, some to Catholics and Orthodox, some to Protestants and Catholics. It's not one or the other. BUT MY ARGUMENT IS that the Orthodox Church never claimed it wrote the bible. It's modern culture that uses that to build arguments against the authority of the word. So my question is: what about the Old Testament? Did the Orthodox Church write that too?

  • opinion#3166

    2 Tim 3:14-17: continue in the things you have learned, knowing of whom you learned them; from a child you have known the holy scriptures, able to make you wise to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished to all good works. In short, God's word is sufficient. That's why even the believers in Veroia checked that everything Paul taught agreed with the Bible: Acts 17:11, they searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so. The church that canonized the NT books had to acknowledge them, not give them the authority they already had! So we have God's word, theopneustos, without flaws, and the dangerous traditions of men that Jesus warned about. Mar 7:8-9: laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men. We wouldn't know God's will, heart, love and plan without the Bible. Everything we know about Him is through his word, everything we need for salvation is through His word. So brother, we can't call it deficient or not enough.

  • opinion#3161

    If the scriptures aren't enough in your view, then Jesus isn't enough either. The first Christians were Jews who saw Jesus alive and spread the message through the power of the Holy Spirit. I don't think you know what you're talking about!

  • opinion#3162

    But there's a problem with adding books when it comes to sola scriptura within the protestant belief. You said only 39 books are in the OT, the rest are considered non-canonical. Your argument is about who wrote the Old Testament. Who do you think wrote it? Weren't Greeks reading the Septuagint long before Christ arrived? It was written in Greek.

  • opinion#3163

    2 Timothy 3:15-17 KJV: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Your arguments are false. Scripture is the only authority a man can rely on.

  • opinion#3165

    I agree with you. Consider that the word of God reached many places in the world centuries before the people there even knew about the orthodox church. In Switzerland there are still only orthodox churches for foreigners in their own language, for example. I'm sure there are a lot of real followers of Jesus Christ who are your brethren and sisters in Christ. For all of us in this condition, we're so grateful for the word of God, which is for us like bread from heaven and like a bath to purify us. As Christians we should grow together, which is the will of Jesus Christ as he told us in John 13:34-35.

  • opinion#3168

    Yes, I did know that. I also understand that not all the writings were included or accepted as canonical in the Holy Bible. So how do you suggest we read or regard, say, the writings that make up the Apocrypha?